A little feedback about Secondary Stats on Demon Hunters Havoc Scaling

Classes Demon Hunter
1

I believe this might be a little bit extensive, so will try to make it more objective as possible, and always will welcome some good feedback from fellow DH Havoc on this Matter.

So let’s get down to the point…

I feel like Mastey secondary Stat should be reworked to be morer condizent with the Spec Lore and factor-scale.

Being a melee already ask you for high crits values to miss less auto-attacks that also are better scale with Versatility than Mastery.
Mastery, as it is have the following redaction: “Increase your Chaos damage Done by X, and increase your movemnt speed by Y”

This only scale for the Chaos Damaging Spells which follow as:

  • Chaos Strike(Core rotation for Fury Spender and reset EyeBeam on current gameplay of Shadowlands))

  • Annihilation(Chaos Strike on Meta form, Core rotation for Fury Spender and reset EyeBeam on current gameplay of Shadowlands)

  • Eye Beam (Main Dps factor with trinket, for the CRITICAL it provides garanteed.)

  • Fel Rush( Without Talent or good Critical Scaling will fall short on Glaive Tempest, and the ammount of Targets)

  • Chaos Nova(Utility Stun, no significant Damage use)

  • Fel Eruption(Utility Stun, some significant Damage on-use)

  • Glaive Tempest(Good Option for some add cleave, although Fel Rush talent is predominant when high Critical Ratin applied)

  • Essence Break (Talent choice, not reccomended since the use of it’s buff can`t scale well with the Mastery or Haste, which are NEEDED by basis for the Spec.)

Spells that don`t scale at all with Mastery:

  • Blade Dance(Physical Damage.The option for fury spender on more targets)
  • Death Sweep( Physical Damage.The option for fury spender on more targets on Meta form)
  • Auto-Attacks(Physical Damage. Only scales with Haste for for attacks; Crit for less Miss rating and more damage on hitting;
  • Immolation Aura (FIRE DAMAGE. MAIN ROTATION USE ON CD. Have a huge % on Dps done during rotations)
  • Fel Devastation(FIRE DAMAGE.Used with the legendary Collective Anguish on current gameplay style, roughtly a 25% increase for each Eye Beam Cast)

Now that we determined the usage of the Secondary Stat, some basis arguments i have about it will be made before continuing:

Mastery is about, the masterfullness of something about your damage/usage of the Specialization of the Class.
Whith the increase and broad use of Versatility, Mastery provides much less than the Versatility stat which scale with all our skill-set as a Dps Spec.

However, “lore”-wise, i believe Mastery should never be under Versatility. Versatility should be considere a tertiary item, as Avoidance. And here we get to a crisis point of Stat-Wise appliacation on Itemizations.

PvP Items (not Trinkets, will talk about it later) often provides High Versatility and the amount of the Haste/Crit DH needs to do a good damage to progress.
However, if Mastery would affect perhaps ALL CHAOS DAMAGE, and METAMORPHIS would change ALL DAMAGE FROM SPELLS TO CHAOS DAMAGE(Lore-wise, it makes sense.) We wouldn’t be in a tight spot as Demon Hunters on pulling high over-all damages on M+ and other Scenarios alike.

If the Immolation Aura itself changed to Chaos damage and not fire damage, the buff itself would be at 14.4% on use, just doing that would Fix all the parses and DEEP NEED FOR THE CACHE TRINKET FOR XYMOX.

If Death Sweep changed the damage from Blade Dance to Chaos Damage(Which is lore-wise correct). Would open more versatily styles of gameplay for our Class.

Im not asking for Buffs on class, i`m just trying to provide some insight about some possible changes that could be made on the Class on Dragon Flight(Maybe test it on Season 4 perhaps).

Versatility being better than Mastery is just wrong, in my view of lore and valor of the stat.

Some discussion should be made about this i believe it would make the Class much more fun to play too.

Hoping on good feedback on all fellow DH`s out there, and Blizzard if possible!

Ty!

1 Like
2

So what are you really getting at?

You want the boring Versatility stat to matter less than Mastery and to accomplish this, you just want more of our abilities to do Chaos damage and as such will benefit from Mastery?

Or do you want to make our “Mastery” different in some way?

Or is it something else?

I just didn’t quite get what your really getting at and why I suppose.

But my thoughts on our stat situation is this…

Secondary Stats

  • Mastery
    I think generally all classes/specs should have the “Mastery” stat be a REALLY good stat to get. Mastery stat is the “interesting” stat that makes the classes/specs unique in there own right… or at least that’s what I think it should do. It’s called “Mastery” for a reason and if I recall correctly, it was supposed to do what you normally do… better. At least that’s the approach from the beginning.

  • Versatility
    I think this stat is the most uninspiring / boring stat in the game. Its so frickin dull. I wish it just got removed from the game in its entirety. If its used for “damage mitigation” for tanks then the tank spec should have a mastery that “flows” well so that they don’t have massive peaks and valleys when it comes to incoming damage mitigation.
    Versatility for DPS specs is just totally braindead imo. And if its for PvP then fine, keep Versatility stat on PvP gear or Resilience or w/e.

Chaos Damage from abilities

  • Chaos Damage
    What I don’t agree with however is making basically everything we do damage from… do Chaos damage. Cause then that removes the “specialness” of what chaos damage is and what abilities utilize it if basically everything we do causes Chaos damage.

    • Death Sweep
      Now I do think “some” abilities can “become” chaos damage. Death Sweep for example. imo I think its silly that Blade Dance does Physical damage yet the abilities gets changed into Death Sweep once we go into Demon Form. What’s the point of it changing into a different ability if its still basically the same? So in that instance, I think Death Sweep should do Chaos damage.
    • Immolation Aura
      I think Immolation Aura could function different while in Demon form via a talent perhaps? Maybe while your in demon form, Immolation aura is just passively active and only then does it do Chaos damage. Maybe it can be changed like how Chaos Strike and Blade Dance turn into Annihilation and Death Sweep respectively. Or perhaps it can turn into Chaos damage for 5 sec after consuming a Soul. Just some type of interesting interaction is what I would like.

Havoc Mastery

Now here is where it gets interesting. Maybe we can just change our Mastery instead. Here are some ideas…

  • Demonic Fury:
    Your Fury costing abilities have x% chance to refund 50% of the fury used.
    • So basically taking the refund mechanic from Chaos Strike away and making it our Mastery and having it applied to all abilities that requires Fury. This makes this Mastery very attractive as it affects our flow tremendously.
  • Demonic Power:
    Increases your critical damage bonus by x%.
    • This makes it so we want both Crit and Mastery. Crit will trigger the effects of our mastery to make our hits hit harder. But also, Haste so we can get more hits in. It would be ideal to have a nice balance of all 3 secondary stats.

Conclusion:

  • I hate versatility as I think its a boring stat with no mechanical interactions.
  • I don’t think all abilities should do baseline Chaos damage. But some abilities should “become” chaos damage under some “effects”.
  • I would like to increase the refund fury mechanic via gear (Legion Crit stat causing Chaos Strike to refund on every crit) Or from our Mastery or from talent options.
3 Likes
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In terms of balance, mastery is in line with other classes’ mastery. On the abilities it does affect, it scales better than vers. The biggest reason we stack vers over mastery is that vers affects every ability in our toolkit, trinkets, AND borrowed power. In the first two tiers, mastery was closer in weight than at least the previous expansion. If anyone did any sims as necro, It actually was its top stat in single target since you don’t press blade dance.

Problem is, we also have meta/eye beam giving us big haste steroids in our class design. Anything that benefits from haste(some trinkets, borrow power), will also benefit from vers. That’s part of Sinful brand is just cranking damage. It’s just a roided out vers stacked shadow damage spell that you extend. If it was chaos, I’d be willing to bet mastery would finally overtake vers in single target.

Dragonflight talents might be the first real fix for the class so its not standing on borrowed power. I’m hoping they make some good base-level design choices. Not a quick band-aid that gives us something similar to sinful brand.

1 Like
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Ive been saying this since the beginning, Mastery should be our best Secondary to Haste. Everything that doesn’t do Chaos Damage, should be doing Chaos Damage, Blade Dance, Immo Aura, id be okay with Auto Attack not having it, fine whatever, but our core abilities that help us do damage, should.

The problem and it can be easily fixed either for S4 or Dragonflight through a talent, just buff our Mastery or give us a 3 tier talent that increased our Mastery thru the talent 3/6/9 % or 4/8/12 % then we go to Mastery Rating, so we’ll have our base 14.4% add 12% thats 26% then the rest we can acquire through rating. There shouldn’t be a “hard cap” on our Mastery, I get DR will come into play but there should be no set, “How much Mastery can I have?” or, “How much Mastery should I need?” those questions shouldn’t come to mind if Mastery is in a good spot.

1 Like
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I liked all suggestions on here!
Need to point something important that people are disregarding…

ON DRAGONFLIGHT WE WON’T HAVE SINFUL BRAND

Without Sinful Brand the Cycle of Hatred+Insatiable Hunger + Blind Fury Build WILL BE DEPRECATED

Since at every encounter Sinful Brand IS TOP DAMAGE CONTRIBUTOR my concerns about the secondary stats scaling are exactly about not having out top damage spell.

  • Without Sinful Brand : Haste will not be our primary stat concer.
  • Without Sinful Brand: First Blood talent should be our talent of choice.

THIS IMPLIES

  • Critical Rating would be several times better than haste until 30%.
  • Haste Rating would not scale well with our skills damage since our primary source of damage won’t be a DoT anymore.

THIS SHOULD BE POINTED AND LISTENED BECAUSE:

  • Without our ShadowLands Legendaries+Covenant abilities, Demon Hunter Havoc will fall short on damage on every end, single, multiple, cleaving targets.

  • Immolation Aura won’t have it’s conduit making it a good damage source, it will nerf it by 80% at minimum. NEED TO BE ADDRESSED.

THE NECESSITE OF INCLUDING SOULBINDS + LEGENDARIES EFFECTS ON TALENT TREE

  • As per shown, we need, to be considered AT LEAST VIABLE AS DPS SPEC some guarantees that some soulbinds and legendary effects need to be ported as talent choice or even skill ranking by leveling up.

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:

  • Immolation Aura does Chaos damage, not fire damage.
  • All abilities on Metamorphosis should change to Chaos damage.
  • Including the Tier Set Bonuses as base line on skills,
  • We won’t have our Cache of Acquired Treasures (item_id=188265) wich will still leave us without another DoT important on our rotation, so Haste will probably be a soft cap, critical hard capping and MASTERY, IF THE CHANGES ABOVE MAKE TROUGH, should have a better scaling and base %, or even change it to something entirely different, like
    making the Mastery effect create the base-line skill of the 4pc-Tier-Set-Bonuses, + Eye Beam not incur on CD, experimental solutions, i must say.

Keep up the discussion boys! We can provide the feedback needed so our Class is not a dead one on arrival on DragonFlight!

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Your realize what you said here yes?
Haste wont be our Primary but First Blood will be the go to, okay think about this real quick, if were using Blade Dance for he sole purpose of FB, then Haste will STILL be our primary secondary because of our Demonic window, should it appear in the tree. This is simply just for CDR.

If were given Critical Chaos, that beefs up our Chaos Strike damage, then Crit will fall significantly after we hit the DR limit.

Mastery, SHOULD, be our baseline secondary, should’ve been like that yet people complained in Legion that we were overpowered, yet instead of nerfing the issue that was causing it (Karazhan items with Chaos Blades) they nerfed our Mastery directly by 40%. That since then has gotten a WHOMPING 14% buff an hasn’t been the same since.

End of the day, we should be Mastery/Haste and Crit until like idk what it is 35%? maybe 30% Im not sure.

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Sinful brand has been almost exclusively this season. Sure there were a couple of fights that Venthyr was better than Night Fae, but it had been the majority Night Fae. In both tiers, Cycle, Insatiable, Blind Fury was still a thing because taking blade dance scaling was bad even with first blood. And we usually stacked haste to increase the procs for DB, increase the death sweeps per mini meta, and to increase procs or ticks on borrow power/trinkets. We continue to stack it because it indirectly gives us more meta uptime(more attacks, means more cycle proc, means more eyebeams), and borrow power is scaling a ton from it.

1 Like
8

I think they should just scrap our mastery and try again. It’s been poorly thought out from the beginning. Make it something fun.

9

No comment on the “lore-wise” part, but it should be noted that if Vers is one of your best stats, then that generally means you have some bad scaling.

I definitely like this idea. It would make Meta a stronger CD too.

1 Like