A Hypothetical - Cancelling Afrasiabi

Lore Story Forum
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But enough to return to Stormwind and start rebuilding and populate the surrounding territories. To much that it was already underway by the time of WC3… so “Barely any humans of SW left” isn’t exactly true. There was still a whole Kingdoms worth.

Entirely headcanon, and blatantly not true. Lordaeronian refugees went to Theramore, not SW.

And he was a proven racist and backstabber himself by this time. With zero intentions of ending hostilities against the Forsaken or acknowledge them as people of Lordaeron.

Lol, maybe you should take a bit of your own advice and watch what you say. I have many genocide survivors in my family. Having survived the Holocaust as well as the Tyranny of the USSR. I am infinitely more qualified to talk about it than you.

You can keep trying to make this personal. You can keep trying to attack my moral character as a way of getting the upper hand here. It won’t work. Because at the end of the day, I do not care about you. You are not important enough for me to care. I will say whatever I want however I want to say it, and you can either put your big boy pants on and deal with that, or continue to cry about it. It won’t change anything either way.

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Actually, Chronicles confirms that most of the refugees who fled the First War (already a small number) chose to remain in Lordaeron. The people who went to Stormwind were mostly Lordaeronian laborers (since it was Lordaeron that was subsidizing Stormwind’s reconstruction) or other settlers, and even then it was a small backwater before the influx of Third War refugees.

It’s not headcanon, it’s stated in numerous sources including the World of Warcraft manual as well as represented in-game on the rare occasions that it even comes up. Chronicles and the Eastern Kingdoms atlas also referenced it multiple times as one of the motivating factors for Stormwind’s involvement in WotLK and in the overall culture of Stormwind humans.

A) Sylvanas didn’t know that, and

B) He actually had no intention of backstabbing them, which is why after their alliance ended he asked the Forsaken to uphold their end of the bargain (which was for them to leave Capital City to the Alliance, an element of the bargain proposed by Sylvanas herself.) It was the Forsaken that chose to instead exterminate their former allies rather than uphold their promise.

Then frankly, you should know a lot better than to say the things that you’re saying in this thread, because the rhetoric you’ve been using is that of a genocide denier.

And it doesn’t even make any sense. Why do you need to invalidate the genocide of the humans in order to validate the genocide of the Night Elves? It seems to me that both are valid.

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Journal of Clerk Horrace Whitesteed
The Battle for Hillsbrad

Day 12

We just received word that Southshore has been lost. The Forsaken war machine is too powerful. We are no match for their chemical weapons.

I will attempt, however futilely, to keep this journal updated. I must record these atrocities for posterity.

Day 16

Many of the farmers and residents of Hillsbrad fled. Some attempted to venture east to Arathi Highlands. They never made it. Slaughtered before they reached Thoradin’s Wall.

Many went north to seek refuge in Silverpine Forest. They walked right into the heart of enemy territory! Insane, I know, but they claim that the worgen are now on our side.

Last I heard they made it to Fenris Isle. We lost contact with them after that.

Worgen? Could it be true…

Day 19

We knew our time was limited. We evacuated everyone that we could, but Burnside stated that he would go down with Hillsbrad. We all agreed to stand by his side.

Magistrate Burnside, Citizen Wilkes, Blacksmith Verringtan and the farmers, Getz, Kalaba and Ray remain here as well as a few dozen farmhands.

Day 20

The Hillsbrad Fields are no more. Those that did not flee were captured. The Forsaken have declared us as prisoners of war. We are to be laborers at their new plantation.

Day 25

They incinerated our farms and made us watch. Construction begins tomorrow.

Day 40

Construction of their plantation is nearly complete. This place resembles no farm or plantation that I’ve ever seen.

Day 41

The warden of the plantation, Stillwater, arrived today. He lined all of us up and gave us medical examinations. Nobody knows what’s going on.

Day 45

We’ve started laboring in the sludge fields. They grow poisonous mushrooms in fetid water and muck.

Day 50

I hear screams coming from the Warden’s manor. People are starting to disappear.

Day 52

I overheard that some guards talking about the farmers, Ray, Getz and Kalaba. Something terrible has happened to them - of this I am certain.

Day 60

Those of us that remain are scared for our lives. Some of the farmers claim to have seen ghouls running amok at night.

Day 61

A strange turn of events today: a master apothecary from Tarren Mill arrived. From what little information I am able to gather he is here to supervise the operations. Lydon is his name.

Day 62

Master Apothecary Lydon was dragged away by Stillwater’s guards. He was yelling and screaming that the Dark Lady would have Stillwater’s head for this. What is he talking about, I wonder?

Day 63

I saw them take away Burnside and Verringtan last night. I can only assume that I’m next.

The rest of the journal is full of incoherent scribbles.

Not a genocide tho

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Nope. Actually the reconstruction of Stormwind was funded by the Stormwind House of Nobles. This entire thing ties into the Stonemasons Guild and the Defias Rebellions. I would have thought someone so hell bent on defending WoW’s humans would know their lore.

Yes it is.

Of course she did. She knew who Garithos was. How he treated Elves, and his overall personality.

LOL you really think that? You think He would have marched into Lordaeron and do right by the undead citizenry that resided there? Really?

LOL, okay buddy. Maybe it is time for a nap, what do you say, big guy?

I am not invalidating anything. Humans have had their justice for what has been done to them. Arthas is dead. Whatever grudge they had against the Forsaken begins and ends with Southshore… But you insist on bringing up old lore from 20 years ago as a means to downplay the misogyny, culture erasure, and abusive story telling that has plagued Night Elves for the last decade+.

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Unaware of the death cults forming in their lands, the leaders of the Alliance nations began to bicker and argue over territorial holdings and decreasing political influence. King Terenas of Lordaeron began to suspect that the fragile pact they had forged during their darkest hour would not last for much longer. Terenas had convinced the Alliance leaders to lend money and laborers to help rebuild the southern kingdom of Stormwind, which had been destroyed during the orcish occupation of Azeroth. The higher taxes that resulted, along with the high expense of maintaining and operating the numerous orc internment camps, led many leaders - Genn Greymane of Gilneas in particular - to believe that their kingdoms would be better off seceding from the Alliance.

And from Chronicles

Special importance was placed on rebuilding the nation of Stormwind. King Terenas of the kingdom of Lordaeron had pledged to aid the fallen nation and support Prince Varian Wrynn’s ascension to the throne. For some, Stormwind was a powerful symbol of humanity’s future and if it could rise from the ashes, anyone could. Word of Stormwind’s reconstruction was met with mixed feelings by the kingdom’s refugees. Many of them refused to return to their broken home as it was a reminder of everything they had lost, and so these refugees preferred to start their lives anew in the northern continent of Lordaeron.

And a bunch of other stuff from Tides of Darkness and Beyond the Dark Portal and Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, such as Terenas’ visit to Stormwind and Nethergarde Keep being in part because he wanted to see the progress of his project for himself.

Edit: I know that this won’t convince you but I’m not trying to convince you anymore, this is just here for the record.

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So where does it say Stormwind is mostly Lordaeron refugees? Or did you just make that up?

Because the majority of the project was still funded by the Stormwind House of Nobles, which is still the entire premise of the Defias… Soooo… yeah, still doesn’t prove any of your claims, my guy.

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Chronicles states on multiple occasions that most of Stormwind’s refugees did not return to Stormwind after the Second War. Chronicles Volume 2 page 177 says so, as does Chronicles Volume 3 page 19.

As for the House of Nobles, they simply oversaw the reconstruction in order to ensure the reconstruction effort had some measure of domestic political legitimacy. Tides of Darkness states that it required an army of laborers and engineers that came from across all of the Eastern Kingdoms.

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So where does it say most of those who did were from elsewhere?

No, they contracted the Stonemasons guild, and when they didn’t pay them, they rebelled.

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“most of Stormwind’s citizens stayed in Lordaeron and did not return to Stormwind” seems pretty self explanatory. It would mean that most of what constituted Stormwind’s population after the Second War were not originally from Stormwind, and the only other kingdom that remained part of the Alliance and actively contributed people to the reconstruction was Lordaeron.

A small fraction of Stormwind’s population survived the first war and then the bulk of them chose to stay in Lordaeron. Stormwind’s refugees after the First War were small enough in number that they could fit on a handful of boats, and of THOSE people, only a small fraction of them chose to return to Stormwind.

Are you suggesting that what amounted to a few dozen people at most repopulated the entire kingdom of Stormwind to the point where it’s a global superpower in the span of like a decade? Even ignoring all the other sources I’ve given you stating that the men and materiel to reconstruct Stormwind came from the rest of the Alliance (which at this point pretty much just constitutes Lordaeron in terms of major human nations), the numbers and the timeline don’t work that way.

The money that they were to pay them took the form of subsidies from the rest of the Alliance. Stormwind literally did not exist only a few years earlier. They had no money to pay aside from what the Alliance was contributing to the reconstruction. That was the money that they had been given charge of that they refused to pay the Stonemasons.

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I’m also done correcting you on all this. If you want to learn more I suggest reading Chronicles volumes 2 and 3, as well as Exploring Azeroth: The Eastern Kingdoms if you can stomach reading about filthy, inferior humans.

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Well, it is the Story Forum for a Video Game based on Fictional events. So, that goes without saying.

It is a bit like saying: “the only reason you can breathe is because you have working lungs and oxygen all around.” Or: “the only reason you can walk is because you were born with functioning legs.”

And I don’t see why people like to use the threat of forum vacations for things they disagree with. But as someone said earlier :

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Frowns in High Elf.

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I worded my previous comment poorly; I didn’t mean remove the character, I meant retcon out the parts of Sylvanas’ story that Afrasiabi wrote. It wouldn’t be the first time that Blizz has done retcons that completely rewrite the game’s history - they retconned how the afterlife works, what’s wrong with retconning one character’s history? They did it to Illidan, Kael’thas, Velen, the entire Draenei race, the Nathrezim…

I’m not saying Arthas needs a redemption arc, I am saying if people want to remove what Afrasaiabi worked on, then why leave some things and not others? Because by that logic a lot of Sylvanas’ story in WoW would have to go too. We can’t go “remove everything he did because of his crimes… but not that because I like it.”

Removing everything he did is impractical. What they should be focusing is if Afrasiabi is an abuser, then he needs to be arrested and face legal punishments, not rewrite his work. Punish the person, not rewrite history.

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But it doesn’t say “Most living in Stormwind are not native to the Kingdom”… that isn’t said anywhere.

Show me where it says a few dozen people. If you want to make a claim like “Most of Stormwind are from Lordaeron” then show me where it says so. Otherwise, enough with your headcanon.

You can’t know that. You have no idea where the Nobles kept their money, what lines of credit they had with what banks, what debts they owed or bought from elsewhere. Where the majority of their capital was held. You have no clue.

All I am seeing is speculation and wishful thinking.

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There’s a part of that hopes they do break the timeway just so that we could have an AU where Arthas doesn’t become the Lich King and Sylvanas never dies. But that’s just wishful thinking.

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Well looks like these are things of the last now

“Going forward, in-game characters will no longer be named after real employees and we will be more thoughtful and discerning about adding real world references in future Overwatch content,” the team wrote.(yes I know the quote is for Overwatch but I assume it will apply to all of Blizzard)

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Change Mac’Aree to Ma’Khari next.

Draenei have some South Asian and West Asian motifs, Khari means a few things in a few languages in those world regions.

Same pronunciation.

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Damn, I forgot that place was named after him. Yeah hopefully it does get changed.

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How about we change it to “Mac’Aroon”?

If there is some underlying pastry based lore to Argus, then Aethas and his muffin could actually be a meaningful… bread crumb… for future lore.

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I would never associate something so delicious to blizzard :pensive:

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