A fourth class role (tank/DPS/Healer)

Community General Discussion
1

Digging up an older idea from a couple years ago that I liked, and havn’t seen on the forums recently (might have missed it)

The idea would be the creation of a fourth class role: Support.

Currently in layman’s terms the class roles are as follows (we aren’t gonna get super specific)

Tank: Takes most of the damage
DPS: Deals most of the damage
Healer: Keeps Tank and DPS alive

The Support role would focus on party damage buffs and/or boss damage avoidance. Most of their toolkit would be utility abilities and buffs, with minor damage/healing abilities.

Multiple classes could have specs changed or new specs created to fit this role. For example:

Buff paladins
Magic Damage enhancement Mage
“banner” or “flag bearer” Warrior

Many class ideas could also be molded to fit this role

Everything about a Bard
Damage avoidance Necromancer (bone shields/skeletons)
Damage soak steamwarrior (or whatever you call mechanical fighters)

Thoughts?

1 Like
2

Here we go again.

Does this kind of topic is a regular now ?

2 Likes
3

Havn’t seen it in a bit, was it posted recently?

1 Like
4

There are many topics from a long date asking for what is essentially a “rip off of multiple classes” to make a fourth class that is either too niche to work, or too much of a hassle to make it useful.

As many in the industry attest, games have tried to break the tank/dps/healer old tradition because they think it is “nonsense”, since before video games even existed.

The problem with it is that, like some games came to realize, tank/dps/healer is a trilemma, however, anything in between is not. That is why this the most intuitive and practical division for the structure of a game, and all games naturally gravitate towards it.

Even if you cant understand the concepts of game theory behind it, you can feel it, in games that tried to have something different and ended up slowly going back to the “holy trinity” form.

It is like the thing about the “Giraffe’s heart and neck”. People say it is “genius” of nature that giraffes have such neck and such heart. But it is not. One affords the other mutually, and that is why both evolved to be icons of that species for the power/size they have. You know giraffe’s neck is not only long, it is muscular, and it is used as a very powerful weapon by it, and so is its powerful heart.

That is also the fundamental behind tank/dps/healer. You cant come up with a single idea of another role that is not already better performed by this division, without diminishing returns, either individual or to the group. There is simply no better solution to this that is not form without function. If you can do it, mostly better, by the 3, inserting another one is a novelty that serves no other purpose than that: novelty.

This video explains a lot in how that is, with an IRL example:

4 Likes
5

I do agree there is potential for hyper specific class roles that would fall by the wayside in favor of other specs, though I’d argue that many “trifecta” games have Support characters classified as other things.

If you look at the structuring of team shooters (I know, I know, not an MMO) Characters like TF2’s Engineer or Overwatch’s Lucio occupy DPS and healing roles respectively, dispite having unique attributes that help their team. The problem isn’t necessarily breaking the trifecta of T/D/H, but more so designing something Stable and Balanced that can work in tandem with the others.

I’d argue that you could move Disc priest almost as is into a “support” role without changing much about it.

Again, I’m not here to actually design this new system. But I do think the merits of it could be an interesting addition to the game. A support role could add something unique to Raiding or PVP. Trade in 3-4 raid spots for support classes and you have a good enough system to allow players to have an optional role.
Afterall, as popular as Mythics and PVP are, Raiding seems to be Blizzard’s current focus for better or worse

To be blunt, I don’t think you can change the T/H/D/D/D setup of Mythics. You need the damage in order to run them in time.

And if no one likes it, we’ll just have another Survival Hunter shrug

6

Problem is: It is not that it is not possible, nor it would not work. The only problem is that it is a rhetorical job the support the role as a class specific one.

Think of it this way:
You might as well understand that, being me a tank (the role I most like filling), a DPS is a support role to me, a healer is a support role to me. And the same can be said about me to them as well. There is no reason besides being relegated as such, that a “support specific class role” must be added.

It is hard to see this in WoW because class design in WoW is absolute crap. They make tanks that DPS, DPS that heal, heal that DPS, DPS that might tank, and so on.

In other games, I wont say the name because people dont like it, your tank has a set of powers to tank, and while it does DPS, its clear specialty is not that. On the other hand, you are equipped with a myriad of party protection abilities, damage control and damage mitigation tools, and the passive power to enforce your role.

In EVE online they just replaced the “word” healer to the “word” logistics, but still the same basic role. And also you have the same structure. You have small ships which go close to damage big vessels counting on the speed is tracking signature to avoid damage, you have big ships which might anchor in place and just take insane amounts of damage. You have a almost true glass cannon, a ship that a bunch of destroyers would be able to end if they get close, however it is a ship with a weapon that can one shot almost anything in its path.

Still, all the glitter, but remain Tank/DPS/Healer.

There is no design that might smart and at the same time introducing non needed role that just take away things from the other roles to fulfill its purpose.

In short, the only thing that might look wow needs a support class is it crappy design that take away from each class their supporting or logistical abilities.

1 Like
7

nope. bad idea last time it got posted. bad idea the time before that, the first, second and thirteenth time, and will be a bad idea every time hereafter.

3 Likes
8

What might work is making some of the healers actively buff DPS instead of doing their own. But it would make their contributions mostly transparent and the hard truth is people want to feel and be acknowledged for their contributions.

9

DC Universe Online has a fourth role. It handles crowd control and providing teammates with the energy needed to use their abilities, essentially being living batteries for healers during high-end content while doing less damage than the DPS, and people who main it tend to be insufferable in some way. I don’t want to see that kind of person in this game.

As to whether or not a fourth role could be added, it most definitely can’t because it’s 17 years too late to shake up the DPS-healer-tank trinity, just like how we still only have two factions instead of one or three.

10

I know some people on here would really like a support role but I honestly don’t think it would be that popular. It is essentially to my understanding just a combination of all the things that people currently dislike the most about each of the other roles.
All the healer jobs like doing the maze in mists or mob control of tanking or a low dps spec getting all the stuns etc. Organised groups might like it but I highly doubt that many people would enjoy it.

2 Likes
11

Alternatively, you could just take away the things that the support players would have to do. For instance, the maze in Mists should auto-solve after M+15. The bombs during the Manastorms fight don’t need to exist. Wall pulls wouldn’t need to happen because pointless walls wouldn’t exist and dungeons would stop being designed around actively aoe capping players.

Ngl this role just sounds like doing chores and I can’t imagine that enough people would be willing to do it.

12

If you take the ‘utility’ away from the current classes and give them to a 4th spec, wouldn’t that take away any identity they have? 3 damage dealers with basically different animations & nothing else to separate them.

13

People have asked for a class such as the Bard which would more or less do this. Problem is, you’d need more than one spec, and what would the other specs do?

The healing classes are generally considered support. Unless you can come up with a minimum of 2 specs (because Demon Hunters only have 2 so thats a precedent).

Certainly bards could be quite a charming class to play (in more ways than one)…can almost imagine a spell called “Soothe the Savage Breast” given the old quote of “music hath charms to soothe savage breast”. Except Blizzard would probably change it to 'beast" to avoid any tender sensibilities. So the bard could have various instruments that provide different abilities and its talents could be related to songs that it learned. Its only other reasonable spec would be dps. I guess they could spit spells out of their flute. And icky if cute ability.

And as for buffs, songs and anthems and such could create moods in those around the bard which could be either beneficial or damaging. Can almost imagine in dps playing something entirely offkey and having the bad guys suffer demoralising effects from that. Imagines an orc with its fingers in its ears running away going “make it stop!”

14

It’s called the trinity for a reason.

15

Go play Rift if you want a fourth spec.

16

If it’s good enough to be worth it, they’ll be mandator and you’ve lost 3-4 more DPS from groups, and have longer waits looking for those support roles which are already hard to fill with tanks/healers.

If not, nobody’s going to play one because groups would rather have more pump from a DPS.

17

^^ this…oh so much this. Barding in EQII and Rift was fun and rewarding.

18

If you got a full roster of “enhancement” support roles upon logging into a LFR or battleground…

Just thinking of that stress makes me shake with frustration a little.