A concern about Pelagos from the perspective of a trans woman

Sorry if the title comes across as incendiary. To balance that out a bit, I’d like to start by saying that from what I’ve seen of him, Pelagos is well-written and tastefully done, and a welcome inclusion to the story. The existence of a trans character in a game as large and influential as this one is something that would never have happened only a decade ago.
That being said, I have one concern over the broader issue of transitioning in the lore and setting of Warcraft, and how I believe it could incite a negative reaction in some players if not appropriately expanded upon.

Pelagos transitioned as a result of having died. It’s a really neat and endearing outcome of the afterlife that in dying, your soul manifests as the best reflection of yourself. However, one of the most soul-crushing parts of gender dysphoria is that it often makes you feel as though your lived experience will never accurately be reflected in the way in which you physically and socially present. In those moments, it can seem as though the only option to find relief from an emotionally traumatizing existence is through death or suicide. While in real life feelings of dysphoria can be alleviated to varying degrees – for some more successfully than others – this remains a thought both myself and others in the transgender community have contended with at some point in our lives, for various highly complicated reasons. Often it’s recurring.

In ESO, a trans woman gives a detailed account of how people go through the process of transitioning within the story. In WoW, for as tremendously beneficial as a precedent like this has the potential to be, there are no solid, concrete methods of transitioning for living people in the story that are referenced as such.

We have transmorphic tinctures, for instance, or illusion magic. But until these are given a solid reference in the story by those who may experience feelings of dysphoria, they remain to the majority of the playerbase a flavor item or a gimmicky gameplay mechanic.

The point of this is not to impugn Blizzard for anything I think they’ve done wrong, but rather to shed light on the idea that if I were living in the WoW universe and I met Pelagos and heard his story, I would come away from it thinking, “Wow, if I want to be my true self, suicide really is my best option.”
In a world where those who share experiences like mine are faced with similar thoughts every day, it seems appropriate for Blizzard to meaningfully address this, and how feelings of intense physiological and mental discomfort are handled by people in-universe. Otherwise, the story of Pelagos seems happy and heartwarming, but simultaneously incredibly bleak and depressing.

I understand that by virtue of this being an expansion about the afterlife, this is sort of just the most setting-appropriate story to have written on this subject. And like I said earlier, I quite like the concept! But because it touches on what I would personally consider to be very delicate ground, it would be really cool for Blizzard to expand on representation of the trans community a little more broadly. After all, the idea that transgender characters in the Warcraft setting are consigned to a miserable, hellish existence until the point at which they finally die is not what I would imagine to be the message Blizzard wants to get across here. Pelagos himself describes a lifelong struggle that was only finally alleviated in death, a feeling that has led many trans people to hurt or kill themselves in the real world.

As a final note, I’m well aware how contentious this subject may be, and that for a lot of people my concerns here may seem a little ridiculous. All I ask is that you try to contribute to the discussion in a healthy, respectful way, just as my criticisms here are intended.

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I think the character was written in good faith, but as you said there’s a bit of a negative connotation attached to the whole “death” thing surrounding it, but, in the scope of things I would say it’s worth looking past the…awkward delivery to appreciate the inclusion. If the character can be altered in any way to remove that awkward coincidence without removing the character altogether that would definitely be ideal though.

anyway theres not a chance in hell this thread won’t derail and go to heck, so trans rights are human rights crabmilk out

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Maybe if they expanded on his story before he died? How he was able to make it work somehow?

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I totally agree! The writers seem sincere and should be treated charitably when discussing the character, IMHO. And you’re right, the existence of this character regardless of any awkward surrounding context is awesome.

I’m hunkering down, that’s for sure

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Does it feel like you’re being pandered to?

That’s a nice idea! And it would be pretty cool to get more insight into how the people around him treated him.

This. Gon. :b:. Gud. :popcorn:

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Sort of, but it’s the nature of corporations that their main incentive will always be to make money, and any ostensible progressive values will be a reflection just as much of that as any sincerely held beliefs by the writers. That said, good representation in media is hugely beneficial to the LGBT+ community, and it matters more IMHO what players take away from it than what the company originally intended.

Pleasantly surprised so far, but we’ll see!

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I had the same brainstem that you did aka the ‘so it would take death to finally accomplish the goals of my transition’.

While that’s a thought someone might have I sincerely do believe it was written in good faith and would bring more benefit than harm.

I think your thread is important for that reason - it brings awareness to someone who might come to that conclusion and maybe save them from drawing dark ideas from it. For that, thank you :slight_smile:

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Hooooold up cuz I don’t think that’s what they’re going for at all. ( And for context I’m a trans dude )

In the world of WoW, they have magic when it comes to changing your body. I’m gonna guess that Pelagos didn’t have that option when they died.

This is just how I’m interpreting it. They’re not saying “Hey highly suicidal trans, go kill yourself if you want to be happy”

They’re just exploring discovering your true self.

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Thank you, I really appreciate that! I completely agree with you here, and I hope regardless of any potentially awkward framing we can all appreciate just what a positive precedent this sets.

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Heck I’m just giddy Pelagos is a trans guy. No offense trans ladies but you kiiiiiiiiinda overshadow us just a teeny bit. Not your fault.

I’ve had people not even understand trans guys were a thing. It’s THAT bad

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To those above: No, clearly that is not their intention, but it is something that is accidentally implied. It should be fine as long as there are living trans people on Azeroth, as well. Or if Pelagos was able to seen as the man he was in life.

This, basically.

Trans rights :sunglasses:

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Apologies if I was unclear. If my post seemed to be treating Blizzard uncharitably here, it wasn’t my intention. I know Blizzard has no intention of reinforcing the idea that death is the only recourse for someone suffering from dysphoria. My point was rather that as the sole trans character in the story up to this point, additional context around the issue in the world of the living might be a good idea.

COMPLETELY agreed. Trans men are massively underrepresented in media, so major kudos to Blizzard on that front.

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Yeah. It’s like that “Well he’s a little confused but he’s got the spirit” meme aimed at Blizz.

I can appreciate the thought. I mean think about it. Bastion is all about earning your wings and really figuring yourself out. Pelagos and trans people totally fit with this mindset.

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Oh I’m not saying you were treating them unfairly. I just went into protective trans dude mode at you, a fellow trans, talking about even fictional / hypothetical suicide.

I know those thoughts are ROUGH so I’m just in Dad Mode trying to be emotional support lol

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It’s definitely thematically appropriate. I do like the concept quite a lot, and I should probably have stressed that I don’t think Blizzard has done anything wrong or malicious here.

That’s fair. I totally get that, and I really appreciate it! Honestly, I think the biggest takeaway from this whole thing is how overwhelmingly positive the reception has been. This is so much more constructive than I thought it would be.

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I think I’m echoing OP on this, but from an entirely different perspective; I’m 100% cool with the inclusion of anything of the sort as long as it’s not in my face, or put in poorly just to say they did it.

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Eh…a few loud mouths here and there on the forums aren’t fans of Pelagos but that’s their problem.

I may be going Venthyr but I like to imagine this toon and Pelagos being best buds still. ( Since I do plan on changing Rosenivy to a dude when Shadowlands comes )

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I imagine my draenei paladin as trans and Bastion is so up that alley already :smile:

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