A Case for Isolating Mythic + and Raid Gear Progression

Hoping to get the attention of Blizzard Devs with this one — (apologize in advance for the length of this).

  1. Preserving Distinct Playstyles

World of Warcraft has historically thrived on offering players multiple endgame pathways—raiding, Mythic+, and PvP. Each caters to different player personalities:

  • Raiders enjoy coordinated, large-scale encounters, teamwork, and long-form progression.
  • Mythic+ players thrive on competitive dungeon runs, efficiency, and scaling difficulty.
  • PvP players seek competitive, skill-versus-skill combat.

PvP already has a distinct gear ecosystem (resilience/conquest scaling) to maintain fairness and separation. Raiding and Mythic+ overlap too much in gearing, which blurs their identities. By isolating their gear systems, each playstyle would retain its integrity without players feeling forced into unwanted content.

Counterpoint: A shared gear pool supports freedom; players aren’t “locked out” of competitive viability if they don’t raid or push keys.

Rebuttal: In practice, the opposite is true. Shared gear creates obligatory overlap — raiders feel forced to push high keys for vault gear, and dungeon players feel pressured into raiding for trinkets or tier bonuses. This isn’t freedom of choice; it’s coercion masked as flexibility. True choice is when a player can specialize in one ecosystem without falling behind — exactly what isolation would allow.

  1. Reducing Unhealthy Cross-Play Pressure

Currently, competitive players often feel compelled to engage in both raiding and Mythic+:

  • Raiders must push high keys early in a season to maximize weekly vault rewards.
  • Mythic+ players must raid for tier sets or trinkets that dominate dungeon performance.

This creates obligation-based participation rather than choice. Players log in not because they enjoy the content, but because they feel punished if they don’t. Over time, this erodes enjoyment and contributes to burnout and churn. A separated gear progression, like PvP’s resilience model, would free players to focus solely on what they enjoy without feeling disadvantaged.

Counterpoint: Shared gear encourages cross-play, strengthening communities and content participation.

Rebuttal: But at what cost? Players currently cross into content not for fun, but for mandatory gear efficiency. That’s not healthy engagement — it’s burnout. Real community strength comes from players invested in the content they actually enjoy. By isolating gear, cross-play becomes voluntary and cosmetic-driven (mounts, titles, appearances), not a gearing requirement. This preserves community vibrancy without fueling resentment toward “the content I have to run.”

2nd Counterpoint: Isolation would force competitive players to maintain two sets, increasing grind.

2nd Rebuttal: That assumes players must compete in both ecosystems. The reality is most focus on one, dabbling in the other. With isolation, players can stop worrying about “needing both sets” to stay viable everywhere. Raiders raid. Dungeon runners push keys. If someone wants to excel in both, yes — they’ll farm two sets. But that should be a choice of ambition, not an obligation imposed on everyone.

  1. Enhancing Progression Identity

Gear should be a badge of mastery. Right now, Mythic+ players and raiders often wear the same items. This dilutes the sense of identity:

  • A Mythic raider should be recognized by raid gear tuned for raids.
  • A Mythic+ pusher should be recognized by dungeon gear tuned for keys.

By introducing mechanics (similar to resilience) that make raid gear stronger in raid environments and dungeon gear stronger in dungeons, gear becomes more than just stat sticks—it becomes playstyle-specific progression. That reinforces pride in one’s chosen content.

  1. Historical Precedent: PvP Resilience

When resilience was introduced for PvP, it solved a major imbalance: raid gear trivialized PvP, and PvP gear trivialized PvE progression. The fix created healthier boundaries and more meaningful choice.

  • Players could still dabble in other content, but they weren’t pressured to grind for competitive viability.
  • PvP had its own ecosystem, and those who engaged in it were rewarded in a way that was self-contained.

Raiding and Mythic+ now mirror the same unhealthy overlap PvP once suffered. History has already shown that gear isolation strengthens the ecosystem.

Counterpoint: Isolated systems would overcomplicate gearing and inventory management.

Rebuttal: PvP already operates with a distinct gear system, and the community adapted easily. Complexity isn’t inherently bad when it clarifies roles and rewards. Instead of juggling raid gear in dungeons or praying a raid trinket isn’t nerfed into irrelevance, players would have clear, streamlined gear progression tailored to their chosen path. Proper UI and vault integration could make this as simple as PvP gear scaling.

  1. Design Flexibility and Balance

Isolated gear also empowers developers:

  • Raid trinkets can be designed to be incredibly powerful for raid encounters without breaking Mythic+.
  • Dungeon gear can have affixes or bonuses tailored to keystones without undermining raid balance.
  • Seasonal themes (like dungeon-specific powers) could be layered on without destabilizing the broader game.

This would give the team far more creative freedom while reducing the “must-have” items that warp progression across both systems.

Counterpoint: Gear balance issues can be solved with tuning rather than isolation.

Rebuttal: Tuning has been attempted for years, yet every tier, the same complaints resurface: raid trinkets dominating keys, dungeon items best-in-slot for raids. Constant nerfs and buffs create instability and erode trust in itemization. Isolation is not a band-aid — it’s a structural solution that future-proofs design. Developers gain freedom to craft exciting, ecosystem-specific items without worrying about breaking the other mode.

2nd Counterpoint: PvP needed resilience because it’s a different ecosystem; raids and Mythic+ are both PvE, so separation isn’t needed.

2nd Rebuttal: While both are PvE, their design philosophies differ radically:

  • Raids test long-term coordination, scripted mechanics, and endurance.
  • Mythic+ tests short-burst efficiency, improvisation, and scaling difficulty.

Just as PvP demanded isolation because PvE gear distorted balance, raids and dungeons distort each other. A raid trinket designed for a 10-minute boss shouldn’t trivialize a 30-second dungeon pull. PvE modes are not identical; pretending they are only perpetuates imbalance.

  1. Optional Cross-Rewards for Variety

Isolation doesn’t mean exclusion. There could still be cosmetic cross-pollination:

  • Titles, mounts, and appearances could encourage occasional participation across modes.
  • “Catch-up” systems could allow casuals to dip into both without forcing competitive players.

The key difference is competitive viability would be contained within each ecosystem, just as PvP operates today.

Conclusion

By isolating raid and Mythic+ gear progression—using a system akin to resilience—World of Warcraft can achieve:

  • Greater respect for player agency and time.
  • Stronger progression identity tied to chosen content.
  • Reduced burnout and pressure from “mandatory” cross-play.
  • Enhanced design flexibility for future seasons.

Just as resilience once saved PvP from raid gear dominance, a modernized equivalent could preserve the distinct integrity of raiding and Mythic+ today.

3 Likes

Sorry, that’s just too long to read. But separating raid and M+ gear would be horrible. It would absolutely wreck heroic raid guilds. Dinars already let us target specific raid or M+ pieces and that looks to be a permanent system now. Blizz wants players to engage in all of the content. Making design decisions to segregate groups of players would go against their own goals.

1 Like

I ain’t even gunna pretend to say I read this

Carrying around PvP and PvE gear is already enough, I don’t want PvP gear, PvE gear, and PvE gear

PvP isn’t isolated from pvp. Early on mythic raiding and mythic plus to a lesser extent give access to max ilv tier saving 4 conquest pieces not allowing pvpers to catch up till conquest uncaps.

For pve I don’t see a need for isolation just less protectism for mythic track gear.

A 10 for vault isn’t “pushing” high keys. They were doable week 1.

Time for this topic again?

All this accomplishes is making PvE gearing tedious and worse and every time it crops up it gets (rightly) panned for being a bad idea.

I don’t think it would be a stretch to assume this was written by AI.

Bottom line for me is that I use a combination of raid and M+ to gear up as quickly and efficiently as possible. Separating them into two different equipment sets only doubles the grind, and I’m not in favor of that.

WoW is Effort = Reward since the beginning and it is still applicable today.

Doing both M+ and Raid requires effort and you are being rewarded accordingly as you are going to be more geared than those who doesnt do both.

Of course, the lazy wants only to do only 1… like M+ only or Raid only. But if you are not on Top of the top, you shouldnt be caring about more players that would be more well-geared than you. You should not envy those who are doing both M+ and Raid. If you are pursuing just KSM and you could do that without doing Raid. If you are pursuing just an AOTC, you could do that without doing M+ on the current system.

BTW, doing M+ 4 times a week to cover 2 Vault options is good enough. Also doing 4 Raid Boss kills to cover 2 Vault options is also good enough. 4x M+ and 4x Raid Boss kills per week is very doable as Casual. You wont be the best. But that’s okay. You have 20+ weeks to do them for this Season.