They were absolutely evil. They would gladly kill people under the belief they might have the Plague. They stopped accepting high elves and dwarves, taking a more “Human Supremacy” view (that thankfully never got explored). They didn’t care if the Forsaken were independent and free-thinking; a Scourge by another name and worthy of the same fate!
But damn were they persistent and potent. They existed in the heart of the Forsaken kingdom. They reclaimed half of Stratholm. Hearthglen and Tyr’s Hand were theirs. The lands they claimed were by all rights their own nation in scope, controlling lands almost comparable in size to any nation of the Horde or Alliance. And they were uncompromising in their mission.
That’s a damn interesting villain organization right there!
Shame it all fell apart because Blizzard basically forgot them after Wrath’s launch patch, only to make them a joke in Cata.
While I understand where you’re coming from (I agree they were interesting… before Blizzard made them one-dimensional), why didn’t you want to see their human supremacy stance explored? For example, seeing how it developed or learning the reasoning behind it (is it the concern that some fans might agree with them? If so, that wouldn’t make them right).
I agree about their persistence, and that they were made a joke in Cata.
Then what was left was mopped up by the Ebon Blade in Legion, with the Scarlet Onslaught being a footnote and the Scarlet Brotherhood an afterthought by the writers.
A few reasons. You touch on one, players identifying their own prejudices as reflected in the Scarlets, but you missed the other big one. And it’s a little shocking you did! I think you’ll agree.
WoW, at the time, had few religious organizations; the Church of the Holy Light (did I get the name wrong) and the Scarlets were the most prominent (excluding druids because I’m not entirely sure if there’s worship in WoW druidism). Portraying one of those organizations as racist while the other offers them some manner of support (they had a diplomat in the Stormwind Cathedral, a few other Scarlets or former Scarlets hung out in other human lands) or at least turns a blind eye.
The two big religious groups; racists and those who tolerate racists. I’m not even religious and I’m offended by that.
But thankfully, Blizzard moved away from the Church accepting/tolerating the Scarlets and the Scarlets never went deep into “Human Supremacy”, so it quickly became a non-issue, only brought up in conversations like this or when people want to discuss issues with the Church.
As recent as late BfA they still seem to have a Human supremacy stance.
I don’t think them having representatives suddenly supports that stance though.
And if we’re being technical, the representatives don’t even represent the Scarlet Crusade that we see as enemies. They represent the ideal organization. The one in Stormwind for example supposedly isn’t even aware of the bad things his organization have done.
Yeah, developing that nowadays wouldn’t bother me. We’ve got (slightly) more religious groups than we did back in Vanilla-Wrath. But with only two back then, the optics of linking the two, even if the representatives all didn’t know how bad the Crusade got, would’ve been a bit less than tasteful.
I saw a hint of the second issue, but wasn’t sure since I also considered the Shamans and the Druids to be religious groups too (I knew a little bit about rl shamanism and figured since the nature beings central to WoW Druidism are called “Wild Gods” and are worshipped alongside Elune by the Night Elves in a henotheistic way).
I agree that was a good change on Blizzard’s part.
I see where you’re coming from about players identifying their own prejudices as reflected. Sadly, some people do that with anything, even if it isn’t related to their “cause”. For a WoW related example, that sicko Elliot Rogers was a WoW fan who identified a bit with Garrosh (even quoted him in that infamous “manifesto” video), but that didn’t make Garrosh right or even connected in any way to gender politics.
Honestly, it’s more the second case; two of the biggest religious orders present in the game, one’s a racist order and the other offers them some low-key support (whether they know about the racism or not), is just a bad taste feel. It feels like it’s trying to say something about religion, even though it’s pretty unintended. Luckily it was never explored and quickly became irrelevant.
But why do you still want churches taxed despite those valid reasons not to? Also, why not tax all places of worship instead of singling out churches?
The most common examples I’ve seen are people who don’t know much about churches assuming they get a free ride they don’t deserve, or people with some sort of anti-church agenda (maybe supporting an atheistic ideology, maybe a grudge or prejudice against Christianity or religion as a whole) wanting to put another obstacle in front of churches.
Individually yeah they mostly run on donations from thier congregation.
But the Catholic church ie, the Vatican is one of the wealthiest private financial insitutions in the world.
There’s speculation that the Vatican was payed off to baptise N@zis with new names and created an underground railroad in a sense through italian churches to get them to Argentina and South America.
I think when most goverments want reparations from the church they are not talking local churches but the institution of the Vatican, a private indepedent nation.
As far as I know, Catholicism is the only religion that is an independant financial institution and state.
I don’t really know if Thad is correct about the motivation in China of the inslavement of muslims for"atheism" it may just be about islamaphobia.
I know a lot of people also confuse the Vatican with their local churches. It’s like they don’t grasp that local churches are dependent on their parishners for money(misspelt that I know)
The Vatican did have a deal with hitler during WW 2. A lot of the priests, especially the pope at the time, turned a blind eye to atrocities being committed by Germany at the time.
People aren’t wrong when they say the Vatican has a lot of blood on it’s hands, because it does.
I’m in favor of it after a certain threshold of wealth/income. So your local church wouldn’t get taxed, but those mega-churches bringing in millions? Yeah, F those guys, make them pay taxes.
The founder of the company Chanel, Coco Chanel herself (full name Gabrielle Bonheur “Coco” Chanel), worked as a N@zi spy before she founded Chanel. Not working with them, for a time she was one of them. Should the entire company today be held accountable because of her?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coco_Chanel
And those who were actually responsible should be held accountable, but innocent until proven guilty and don’t tar all with the same brush. There’s also the fact I shared with Renautus above. Also, wrong as it is, there’s also a difference between ignoring a crime and actually committing one.
What about taxing places or worship for other religions too? Why are all of you singling out Christian places of worship for taxation so far here?
I generally try to stay on topic, but if the OP strays a bit, I can go with it :
I think I would be seen as a moderate Democrat. I see myself as one, anyway. And surprise surprise - I think more taxation is in order.
A sliding scale - like the progressive graduated income tax. Below a certain threshold, no taxes - but as they reap more profits, they should contribute.
One of my main concerns is Political Activism. It happens on both sides. Churches and places of worship can act like a tax free political action committee with less oversight. If priests/pastors/rabbis/whathaveyou want to say it is evil to vote for joe biden, or trump, or anyone - and they preach politics from the pulpit - then they can pay taxes.
I do think if a lot more people knew about her past more people would boycott that company. I remember there was controversy when Natalie Portman (a jewish woman) was the face of Chanel.
Have you seen the History documentary series Hunting Hitler by former CIA agents? Normally I don’t subscribe to conspiracy theories but they had so much evidence and the CIA unofficially backed them up and said “yeah, this is true”
This is why I worry that the rise of 4th Reich in North America speculation is such a hot button issue for me, The Proud Boys, etc. Especially The Proud Boys recruiting through the gaming communities because it overlaps with my love of this game so it’s relevent.
I miss Kyalin because she was equally concerned about this.