A bad Blizzard DPS Meter makes Parsing more mandatory

If this is rage bait, honestly, good job.

Why are you concerned with people trying to improve in a way that is in game.

Why should I need to use external 3rd party websites to see information in game.

That is wild if you prefer that to having the information available in game, especially when we already 100% have the “toxic” part of the meter being the actual DPS.

It is going to be even more toxic as we lack the tools to see why damage is low or healing is low in game and people will just be awful to each other.

Good, we can kick pugs that have bad DPS because DPS is now what matters, because the damage meter is official.

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I don’t want to have to log everything I do which is the point of the post.

Raid leaders who judge healers off the actual number a healing log has often are making a mistake by doing that. Healing only has so much you can heal compared to dps so hps logs are not as relevant as actually looking at CD usage, which is actually something you need logs for compared to details. I find most healing issues are a lack of coordination and can be solved by healers talking about when to use cds rather than just saying heal more to people. But I am simply a dps player so I usually leave that to them.

The average person on these forums has no idea what you’re talking about. I understand completely though. The game is going to be the wild wild west for a while.

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The fact that one guy called me an elitist that probably makes fun of others logs then mocks my sub 700 ilvl dhs logs was hilarious. Insane lack of self awareness. I want to be able to play the way I enjoy and enjoy improving.

I just don’t think people are ready for the even wider separation between casuals and the more intense players without the addons that help people see what they are doing wrong and remedy that. There are so many helpful addons that don’t “play the game” for people. PVP is certainly out of hand with addons but a grace period is so necessary to not just implode the game.

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Just use time to kill. DBM tracks this for you.

Addons won’t work in combat anymore, that’s the point. So DBM won’t be able to do TTL. There’s a good chance there is no DBM/Bigwigs at all next season

Yes this exactly. They all think that having no addons will equalize people, but it will have the opposite effect.

Most really good players do their rotation on muscle memory. And they have more awareness overall so they’ll see the mechanics better than average players. The gap will widen, and people will feel even more hopeless about getting better if they are struggling

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This will absolutely be the case. There are people in my guild that didn’t believed this is happening when we told them, they don’t stay glued to the forums and wowhead like some. It seems like endgame is turning into a glorified lfr….

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Its a huge help in M+, specially if there’s a DK or Havov in the party

I want to try and bring awareness to this as early as possible so there is a higher chance blizzard makes the tools actually usable. It is going to be such a mess on prepatch, I can’t even imagine how many people will complain that are unaware like Mowlaram stated.

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Details has a god awful UI and is a pain in the booty to navigate. Let’s hope blizzard makes something better

Better looking with the same functionality would be totally fine with me.

I think people mostly didn’t like installing and setting up the addons and having to manage them. If they had existed in-game as default then it wouldn’t be so bad. I 100% believe that if they had instead announced they were buying out the main addons and hiring their developers to help remake the default UI it would have been celebrated by everyone

I’d like it to blend with the base UI and not look so out of place. That being said the new health bars they showed also look really out of place and at odds with WoWs design.

I think you’re spot on here, and a lot of the pushback comes from players who don’t understand what the learning loop is in higher level content that good meters allow. I think there’s a big disconnect in these discussions that often gets misunderstood. When higher end players say something like “you don’t run that level of content, so your opinion doesn’t really apply,” casual players often hear, “you’re a bad player and your opinion doesn’t matter.”

That’s not what we mean at all. What we’re actually saying is: at the level of content you play, mistakes simply aren’t punished heavily, and that’s fine. But once you get into content where even small mistakes are lethal (which is inevitable in infinitely-scaling systems like Mythic+), the game fundamentally changes. The way you approach pulls, plan defensives, track cooldowns, and communicate all evolve because the margin for error disappears.

This is also why the addon debate is so frustrating (in this case just DPS meters). You’ll often hear: “addons play the game for you!” That’s false. Addons don’t play the game. They display already available information in a more readable way so players can make informed decisions faster. At lower difficulties, that information doesn’t really matter. But at higher levels, interpreting that information quickly is the difference between timing a key or wiping.

Take an example:
In a +7 key, two casters start targeting me. I just keep DPSing. I’ll take a bit of damage, but the healer will cover it. No big deal.

In a +14, the same pull happens. I know I have one defensive and one immunity. The healer checks OmniCD, sees I have tools available, and decides not to use an external on me. Maybe that’s the right call, maybe it’s not. It depends on whether I react properly.

Let’s say I don’t. I miss my defensive and die. Now I want to understand “why”. This is where good meters come in handy. I check the death log and see I took two hits in 0.3 seconds. I check cooldown usage. Oh look, I never used my defensives. I check interrupts. None went out. So the takeaway isn’t “the healer didn’t heal me,” it’s “I failed to use a CD, and the group failed to interrupt.” We learn, adjust, and improve. We can do this in seconds by looking at Details.

That kind of analysis, the learning loop, is what addons make possible. Without them, higher end play becomes not just harder, but less readable. It becomes more of a game of player vs UI because the UI is now working against you instead of with you. You can’t improve at something you can’t see clearly.

And that’s the key point: no matter how much Blizzard simplifies mechanics, this kind of high-pressure scenario will always exist in infinitely-scaling content like Mythic+. You can’t “design out” the need for awareness and analysis when damage keeps scaling and mistakes remain lethal.

To more directly address OPs point, the need for this type of analysis will not go away. Instead, it will just become less convenient and more dependent on third party tools like logging websites, which is the complete opposite of Blizzard’s stated goal.

edit: a word

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Well, this is a gross exaggeration. Bosses like Nexus-King are very difficult and can easily exist in a post-combat weakaura solving world.

Yea I am not actually super worried about boss design. It is more on the player side of things and not having good tools that I am worried about. Bosses they can easily make that don’t need addons.

I worry less about bosses and way more about m+ personally. Like I said in my prior post, infinitely scaling content with variable numbers of mobs per pull will have more information flying at us and thus a higher need for tools to easily parse both what’s happening now and what happened in the past for review. I feel like our voices are just a drop in an ocean, but maybe we’ll get heard.

Yea, not having details as is at a minimum is going to make the game so much less fun. I’m dreading it honestly.

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It doesn’t matter if your intent wasn’t to be condescending but your passive aggressive words were in fact, condescending to the OP.

Back to the TOPIC, Blizzard won’t stop people from min maxing, they’re just removing tools and making everything more annoying for us. I give it one season before they realized the mistake they’ve made and rollback some of the addon restrictions.