A 9.0.x postmortem

With 9.1 coming, I kind of want to take stock of where we are, since if nothing else, Shadowlands has brought out some strong emotions, pro and con, from the player base.

Given that I tend not to do PvP unless I have no other choice, this is just about PvE, and really is just my opinions. Feel free to differ using your own. Also, if you’re one to fish for achievements before reading, I switched mains this xpac.

STORY
The Good: Got us away from Void and Legion stuff, which was getting repetitive; also got us away from Team Red/Team Blue that BfA rode all the way down into the dirt.
The Bad: Sylvanas’ plot armor appears to have been fortified, the Jailer was basically dropped in without any build-up (and isn’t particularly striking as the villain to carry an xpac); the whole concept of the Shadowlands has plot holes all over.
The Verdict: Feels half-baked, especially the walking plot hole known as Bastion/the Kyrians, but may yet make more sense than BfA did.

RAIDS
The Good: Venthyr were the most interesting covenant and Denathrius a perfect guy to hate; nice thought behind trinket design, well-told story with a payoff at the end.
The Bad: Overtuned on Heroic difficulty (and arguably Normal as well given the ilvl of gear at the beginning of the xpac); cheaped-out cutscene that ended it; bad encounter design on Sire fight for some ranged classes (i.e., BM hunters and Demo locks in P2).
The Verdict: Could have held up as an end-of-xpac raid had Denathrius been given a bigger role in the story, but Blizzard needs to redo both Normal and Heroic difficulty levels so every level of the game isn’t a wannabe esport.

DUNGEONS
The Good: Leveling dungeons appropriately tuned for the purpose, M+ had clear difficulty breakpoints
The Bad: Prideful turned high keys into World of Routequest, some timers were (and are) too tight depending on the affix
The Verdict: Someone made the decision to turn WoW into an esports hub and the dungeon experience will never be the same for it – but is that good or bad?

SYSTEMS/BORROWED POWER
The Good: Better than BfA, where we all had to enroll in a 12-step program called Azerite Anonymous; covenant flavor actually hit the mark.
The Bad: The ripcord might not have been needed, but we skydivers needed a pilot chute of some kind – unbalanced powers wrought havoc on multi-spec classes, and some borrowed powers were just unfun to use.
The Verdict: Valiant effort at trying something different, but was probably a 2 on a scale of 1-5.

GENERAL CLASS/SPEC DESIGN
The Good: A cursory attempt was made at unpruning.
The Bad: Lack of attention to output balance rendered half the DPS classes kick-able from higher-level groups; attempt at unpruning usually only added abilities that led to suboptimal output and thus went unused; design felt generally rushed and ignored feedback from players (or, developers simply didn’t know how to fix what they’d broken).
The Verdict: Two xpacs in a row now where baseline class/spec design and balance has been questionable.

TORGHAST
The Good: Good-faith attempt to deliver challenging solo content, concept of “powering up” led to some fun experiences at later floors.
The Bad: When solo’ed, it was overtuned for some specs and trivial for others; zones were too homogenized and forgettable; Soul Ash should have never been capped, especially given there were no other rewards.
The Verdict: Delivered a decent experience for groups, but the reward mechanism was a failure that undercut the whole idea significantly.

QoL/other
The Good: Zones certainly felt unique to one another, art team hit another home run, flying addition looks (for now) fairly straightforward and quick.
The Bad: Not enough flight paths; removal of flight whistle made no sense; Oribos makes the Exodar look like a ergonomic masterpiece; the entirety of the Maw; snarky voice lines given to Ve’nari makes me want to punch her/it; extreme three-dimensional ground pathing (Revendreth, Bastion) is the equivalent of developers trolling the players.
The Verdict: Everything feels like it was built to artificially keep players stuck in various spots and increase the time-played metric, which is insulting. (Note: I would also say the post-Pathfinder inter-zone flying experience looks like a cluster forming, but that’s in 9.1, not 9.0.x.)

20 Likes

Well thought out post, OP.

I’m in agreement with you in regards to the 3-d layout being to troll the player base. It’s going to make ‘getting to the choppah’ a relief. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

In regards to the E-Sports aspect, it’s not my thing. However PvP isn’t really my thing either. Being said, there’s no reason a third aspect of the game shouldn’t be implemented.

As I see it, they let it dominate too much of the game design. Wedged it into the story line with Torghast. Acknowledging the style being its own, giving it separation and not part of the overall chore list would have been nice.

This expansion was also missing the ‘something else to do’ . Unlike BFA where there were war fronts and islands, this go round we got Torghast or…well, we got Torghast. With it not even close to visions in rewards system, for me it was a great disappointment.

2 Likes

I like Torghast mechanically much more than Visione. If they expanded rewards from it to include mounts, pets, transmogs, etc like Islands I’d play the crap out of Torghast cause I’m a giant fan of roguelikes.

3 Likes

I agree with pretty much all of this, but I’d argue that the borrowed power systems in Shadowlands are ultimately worse than in BFA.

I’m honestly okay with the Covenant abilities still staying split, as I kinda agree w/ them that it’s important to have that RPG choice. Not excited to be getting rid of them though.

I really think the legendary crafting and conduits are just overall worse than Azerite armor, though. Azerite armor sucked, but I feel like the borrowed power in SL is overall just way worse for development time reasons.

Now, they have to balance all class Covenant abilities with conduits/soulbinds and legendaries, and now they’ll be adding Domination gear as well… like… what?

Both sucked, but I think Azerite armor just took less time since it was one system. Now they’re trying to balance like four different systems.

3 Likes

Yea if they had actual rewards, even lower drop stuff

I’d probably just be doing torghast for during my off time, but 1 and done for ash is all it’s good for sasly

sire denathrius heroic was the absolute pinnacle of everything that went wrong with raiding this tier. You CANNOT design the first(final raid boss) boss of an expansion to be overly dependent on each player’s performance and if 2-3 people die you wipe.

Also sire denathrius had the only helmet for leather users in the game so…yeah. Went a whole raid tier without a heroic or better helm cause I don’t wanna M+ and when we did down sire denathrius, he didn’t drop it anyway.

1 Like

He also sucked if you were melee.

1 Like

Yeah I got killed many times by massacre because the next 2 lines after one I just dodged were right on top of me with no time to escape, and fel rushing is pretty much a death sentence in the down area.

I love the time played aspects, I was
thinking of them when leveling in Nagrand in TBC and how a single quest asked me to kill 50 ogres. The I walk over to Nessingway and 3 quests for 90 kills.

Or how I have to level 5 reps to revered to even do heroic dungeons on every single alt.

Talk about getting lazy and padding play time.

He’s an end boss! What’s wrong with giving him some teeth? Requiring members to not just tunnel.

He’s the first end boss of the expansion, it should never go to the point of depending on every player’s performance and the whole encounter wiping because 2 people messed up. It’s too punishing and unfair as a whole to the raid team.

2 Likes

BFa tried harder.

We could be pretty sure ashvane was going to get sprung out of jail…but we got her in jail at least.

Stone boy let Kel’thuzad get taken away. " It is not our place". BS it ain’t you literally stoned moron. We don’t need the arbiter to decide this dude’s fate.

2 Likes

Bad. It will always be bad.

Again if you’re not paying attention WoW Devs have fully committed to competitive mmorpg PvE game play. It’s a full on philosophy at this point and it’s why a ton of players do not like the game.

Yeah, it is why I spend more time pet collecting than doing dungeons or group content now. lol

Today is the first day of summer so… https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=6585/kalimdor-safari

Been waiting a few weeks to get that one.

2 Likes

Players are also doing their best to make classic and TBC competitive as well with massive class stacking, world buffs, Warcraftlogs parse chasing, etc.

I’d say at this point that’s probably because that’s what’s left of the massive player base they used to have, but in tbc leveling is still very much an involved process unlike in retail where they make next to no effort hiding what they’re designing.

I had a convo with a buddy who plays Retail WoW and he joked when he said if at peak population only 10% of unique accounts did the hardest content, but your idea was to get more people into that content, so you made the casual game so easy and quick that you’d have to go into that hard content, but in the process you lost 30% of your unique accounts and as a result you saw now 30% of the unique accounts did the hard content…that’s not because new players joined them.

At the end of the day WoW is now where EQ is the development of the game revolves around a base who’s always wanted harder more involved content. The devs just at this point make the game reflective of that population and all over the Internet people are pointing this out.

Absolutely the game changes have been changing the population demographics over the last few expansions. I do not believe any of the people I played with through WoTLK, Cata and MoP would enjoy the state of the game now. Some times they pop in for a week or so, but they always leave.

The current game play, and the feel are just too different for them to adjust. Plus they can’t find people “like them” anymore. Those players are just gone.

As your friend said, maybe 10% did the hardest content back in the day. I would guess you could make the argument that it’s flipped now. I definitely feel like I’m in the 10% that isn’t chasing the meta right now. I’m off goofing around, doing pet battles, casually leveling alts and… posting on the forums. I only have two chars at max level. A horde Shaman and Alliance Paladin. Content I have “done”: A few normal dungeons, Torghast a few times and a few world quests. I just picked up my first memory for the rune carver this week. Maybe in a month I’ll have enough soul ash to craft the Legendary? Not sure.

Edit - I forgot have 3 chars at level. I leveled a Horde Paladin doing pet battles. Kinda funny hitting max level at an iLvl of ~66 lol.

2 Likes

Its even reaching that vaunted “community” so talked up. Basic lfg’s can list what they don’t want for say DPS.

Why I am fan of latter lfd. A picky person probably wanted something besides the DPS spec I am running. Well people in hell want ice water. Neither of them are getting what they want so yeah…lets step off and hit this instance shall we.

2 Likes

A lot of salient points, and a lot of information. Good job of articulating your key points!

/Polite golf clap

2 Likes

“Interesting but too complicated” would be my summary.

1 Like