A 30-minute mockup for a better Hunter Class Talent tree

Classes Hunter
1

Here’s 30 minutes’ worth of effort in revising the Hunter Class Talent Tree. It’s far from ideal, imo, but I wanted to limit myself to that half-hour just as proof of concept that improvements are indeed possible even with that short span of attention and to keep myself from getting mired in perfectionism.

Highlights:

  • Baselined Concussive Shot (indirectly), Kill Shot, Countershot, Tranquilizing Shot, and Misdirection.
  • Made most of the especially poor talents not so poor. Removed the rest.
  • Sentinel Owl now includes party-wide sight baseline.
  • Most previous mutually exclusive forms of utility may now be taken simultaneously, though there are now new choices to be made.
  • More choice nodes, fewer 2-point talents, especially in any unique paths.
  • Alternatives offered for Intimidation, Sentinel Owl, and Steel Trap.
  • Debuff bloat reduced, mostly by rehauling Master Marksman and revising Poison Injection slightly.

Would Change Further:

  • BM still fits poorly into the class tree due to making something a tenth of the other spec’s damage into a majority of its own. I’ll need to find some workaround for that, but I suspect that even if I make Hunter hits better trigger pet damage and thereby indirectly benefit from Mastery, any pet damage talents themselves would be wasted on the other two.
  • Would like at least one additional capstone on the right, by Serpent Sting (right under the right-side 2-pointer).
  • Would like to ax at least Improved Kill Command, perhaps giving its space instead to Murder of Crows (perhaps a bonus charge and cooldown reduction if taken atop the BM one) with an augmenting/related talent beneath it, and Stampede directly below Beast Mastery (or its replacement) if the right end also gets an extra capstone.
  • Would like a bit more flair here and there, perhaps especially related to pet skill use (note that Lone Wolf now has access to these) or advanced traps/munitions.

Notable Changes to Existing Skills

  • Horn of the Hunt added at level 48, granting Bloodlust/Heroism. Primal Rage is now instead a 1-minute CD granting 15% Leech to target ally, fading over 15 seconds.
  • Enemies immune to traps can no longer intercept/trigger said traps.
  • Misdirection now also misdirects your pet’s threat.
  • Excess Leech healing by the pet or hunter is now transferred to the other.
  • Hunters retain the Tenacity/Cunning/Ferocity active and passive ability of their most recent pet even if that pet is dead or de-summoned. The Hunter may also always use those skills themselves, but while a pet is active, only the Hunter or pet need be able (not CCed and both in line of sight of and in range of target) to use those active skills on that target, offering a small perk to pet-use.
  • MM’s Lone Wolf has been baselined as an increase to auto-attack damage, Mortal Wounds on your Aimed Shot, and a second charge on Concussive Shot when no pet is active.
  • Hunter’s Knowledge has been moved into Lone Wolf’s former talent node space in the MM tree.
  • Fortitude of the Bear may now be cast on others, healing them and extending their maximum health by 20% of your maximum health.
  • Master’s Call has been replaced by Free Flight, which also grants 50% movement speed, fading over 6 seconds.
  • Exhilaration is now off the GCD.
  • Aspect of the Turtle’s additional damage reduction (to effects it cannot immune) has been increased from 30% to 60%.
  • Kill Shot, Tranquilizing Shot, Countershot / Muzzle, and Misdirection baselined.
  • Wing Clip is now a ranged ability with a 6-second cooldown with a 6-second effect, but when used from melee range it ignores its cooldown and has double the duration, effectively making Concussive Shot baseline by consolidating it into Wing Clip without any loss to total functionality.
  • Kill Shot has a 12s CD and now hits for 300% AP, up from 278.3%, but now scales with Haste.
  • The cooldown of Pet Basic Attacks now scales with Haste.
  • Aspect of the Cheetah is now a 2-minute CD.
  • Survival of the Fittest is now a 2-minute CD, but now “reduces all damage you and your pet take by 30%, fading over 8 seconds.” This has the same %mitigation_x_seconds_of_mitigation [1.2 mitiseconds], but further frontloads that mitigation.
  • Binding Shot replaced by Binding Trap, allowing for pre-placement. It now also pulls enemies in immediately and wholly prevents them from leaving its radius, instead of merely stunning. As such, it has no DR.

Talent Tree Manager Link and "Readable Export"

...

TTM Link:
https://pastebin.com/mXDsxwma

Image:
https://ibb.co/DLk0hKx

ROW 1
#0 Kill Command

Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
Beast Mastery, Marksmanship
7.5 second recharge. Give the command to kill, causing your pet to savagely deal (160% of Attack Power) Physical damage to the enemy.

Survival
6 sec recharge. Give the command to kill, causing your pet to savagely deal (215% Attack Power) Physical damage to the enemy.

Kill Command has a 10% chance to immediately reset its cooldown. Generates 15 Focus.

:: Yes, this is the original SV %AP per the Wowhead tooltip, just with the multipliers consolidated. Such is the difference in pet damage/AP vs. the Hunter’s own, especially outside of BM.
Parent talents:
Child talents: 7, 4, 3,

#1 Survival of the Fittest

Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
120-second cooldown.

Reduces all damage you and your pet take by 30%, fading over 8 sec.
Parent talents:
Child talents: 4, 8, 5,

#2 Tar Trap

Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
Hurls a tar trap to the target location that creates a 8 yd radius pool of tar around itself for 30 sec when the first enemy approaches. All enemies have 50% reduced movement speed while in the area of effect. Trap will exist for 1 min.
Parent talents:
Child talents: 9, 6, 5,

ROW 2

#3 Killer Instinct / Alpha Predator

Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
Killer Instinct: Kill Command deals 35% increased damage against enemies below 35% health.

Alpha Predator: Kill Command now has 2 charges.
Parent talents: 0,
Child talents: 7,

#4 Farstrider

Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
Rank 1: You generate additional movement speed over time since you last dealt or received a direct attack, to a maximum of 15% after (1 GCDs’ time).

Rank 2: You generate additional movement speed over time since you last dealt or received a direct attack, to a maximum of 30% after (2 GCDs’ time).
Parent talents: 1, 0,
Child talents: 7, 8,

#5 Posthaste

Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
Rank 1: Disengage also frees you from all movement impairing effects and increases your movement speed by 50%, fading over 4 sec.

Rank 2: Disengage also frees you from all movement impairing effects and increases your movement speed by 50%, fading over 8 sec.
Parent talents: 2, 1,
Child talents: 9, 13, 8,

#6 Entrapment

Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
Enemies entering the center of or exiting Tar Trap will be rooted for 4 seconds. Enemies already caught in this manner cannot be rooted again by Tar Trap for 4 seconds.
Parent talents: 2,
Child talents: 9,

ROW 3

#7 Wilderness Medicine

Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
Rank 1: Increases the healing of your potions and healing over time effects by 20% and gives each heal (including periodic ticks) a 10% chance to dull a magical, poison, or disease debuff. These effects are 150% more effective on your pet.

Rank 2: Increases the healing of your potions and healing over time effects by 40% and gives each heal (including periodic ticks) a 20% chance to dull a magical, poison, or disease debuff. These effects are 150% more effective on your pet.
Parent talents: 4, 3, 0,
Child talents: 15, 11,

#8 Lone Survivor / Nature’s Endurance

Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
Lone Survivor: Reduce the cooldown of Survival of the Fittest and Exhilaration by 30 sec, and increase the duration of Survival of the Fittest by 2.0 sec.

Nature’s Endurance: Increase the mitigation and healing of Exhilaration and Survival of the Fittest by 50%.
Parent talents: 4, 1, 5,
Child talents: 11, 13,

#9 Natural Mending

Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
Rank 1: Every 35 Focus you spend reduces the remaining cooldown on Exhilaration by 1%.

Additionally, you heal for 1% of your health every 2 seconds. Effect tripled while stealthed or out of combat.

Rank 2: Every 35 Focus you spend reduces the remaining cooldown on Exhilaration by 2%.

Additionally, you heal for 1% of your health per second. Effect tripled while stealthed or out of combat.
Parent talents: 2, 6, 5,
Child talents: 17, 13,

ROW 4

#10 Scare Beast

Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Scares a beast, causing it to run in fear for up to 20 sec. Damage caused may interrupt the effect. Only one beast can be feared at a time.
Parent talents:
Child talents: 15, 18,

#11 Intimidation / Wyvern Sting

Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Intimidation: 1-minute cooldown. Instruct your pet to intimidate your target, stunning them for 5 seconds.

Wyvern Sting: 1-minute cooldown. Incapacitate the target for 12 seconds. Any direct damage, or more than (200% of Attack Power) periodic damage, will end this effect early, thereafter stunning the target for 2 seconds.
Parent talents: 7, 8,
Child talents: 15, 16, 19,

#12 Sentinel Owl / Night Hawk

Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Sentinel Owl: 3-minute cooldown. Call forth a Sentinel Owl to the target location within 40 yds, granting you and your party unhindered vision. Your and your party’s attacks ignore line of sight against any target in this area, lasting for 18 seconds.

Sentinel Owl may be used at partial charge for proportionately reduced duration. You may use this action again to de-summon your Sentinel Owl, though it has a minimum duration of 6 seconds and therefore requires at least 1 minute’s charge.

Night Hawk: 3-minute cooldown. Call forth a Night Hawk to the target location within 40 yards, obscuring allies within from the 8-yard radius from view of enemies outside and reducing the range from which they can be struck by enemies outside it by 50%. Lasts up to 9 seconds.

Night Hawk may be used at partial charge for proportionately reduced duration. You may use this action again to de-summon your Sentinel Owl, though it has a minimum duration of 3 seconds and therefore requires at least 1 minute’s charge.
Parent talents:
Child talents: 16,

#13 High-Explosive Trap

Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
30-second cooldown.

Hurls a fire trap to the target location that explodes when an enemy approaches, causing (57.33% of Attack power) Fire damage and knocking all enemies away. Trap will exist for 1 min.
Parent talents: 9, 8, 5,
Child talents: 17, 21, 16,

#14 Aspect of the Lynx

Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
90-second cooldown.

Over the next 3 seconds, you and your pet blend into the surroundings and gain stealth.

More than (200% of Attack Power) damage taken while fading out will cancel this effect prematurely. Any damage taken once stealthed will remove stealth.

Fades out immediately when not in combat.
Parent talents:
Child talents: 17, 22,

ROW 5

#15 Born To Be Wild

Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Rank 1: Reduces the cooldowns of your Aspect abilities by 16.7%.

Rank 2: Reduces the cooldowns of your Aspect abilities by 33%.
Parent talents: 7, 11, 10,
Child talents: 23, 19,

#16 Rejuvenating Wind / Second Wind

Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Rejuvenating Wind: Exhilaration now also heals you for an additional 15% of your maximum health over 8 sec.

Second Wind: Attacks which would reduce you below 30% health will automatically trigger Exhilaration and refresh its cooldown. This effect cannot occur more often than every 1 to 4 minutes, based on how near Exhileration was to being fully cooled when this effect was triggered.
Parent talents: 11, 12, 13,
Child talents: 20, 21, 19,

#17 Improved Traps

Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Rank 1: Reduces the cooldowns of your traps by 16.7%.

Rank 2: Reduces the cooldowns of your traps by 33%.
Parent talents: 9, 14, 13,
Child talents: 27, 21,

ROW 6

#18 Dominant Will

Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Upgrades Scare Beast to Dominate Beast, instead temporarily controlling its target for up to 2 minutes.

This dominated enemy does not benefit from most effects that affect your pet.
Parent talents: 10,
Child talents: 23,

#19 Den Guardian / Decoy

Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Den Guardian: 1-minute cooldown. Instruct your pet to guard the target ally, redirecting 50% of its incoming damage, lasting for up to 8 seconds or until your pet would be reduced to below 30% health.

:: Damage redirected in this manner does not benefit from the mitigation of the attacks’ original target.

Decoy: You may now use Misdirection on yourself, doubling your and your pet’s threat. Using Feign Death while Misdirection is active summons a Decoy, to whom all your threat will be moved until its death. The decoy has health equal to your maximum health.
Parent talents: 15, 11, 16,
Child talents: 23, 24,

#20 Trailblazer / Hunter’s Agility

Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Trailblazer: When you are able to move at above your normal speed, you leave behind a trail that also increases the movement speed for your allies. The portion shared diminishes as your speed increases, to a maximum of +50% movement speed shared when moving at +100% movement speed.

Hunter’s Agility: The effectiveness of your bonus movement speed from Aspect of the Cheetah, Posthaste, and similar effects are increased by 20%, and your dodge chance is increased by 20% of your bonus movement speed. Incapacitating or knocking back a target also provides Posthaste for 2 seconds.
Parent talents: 16,
Child talents: 24, 25, 26,

#21 Binding Trap

Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
45-second cooldown. Hurl a binding trap to the target area that draws in all nearby enemies when any enemy in its range attempts to move further and more than 5 yards away. Upon being drawn in, enemies will be unable to move more than 8 yards from the binding trap for 5 seconds.

Duration reduced to 3 seconds against players.
Parent talents: 17, 13, 16,
Child talents: 26, 27,

#22 Stalker

Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
You automatically trigger Camouflage when you and your party have exited combat.

Your first action upon breaking stealth will deal (75% of Attack Power) more Physical damage if damaging, or have its duration increased by 33.3% if non-damaging.

Stalker’s bonus damage does not benefit from effects specific to a particular skill.
Parent talents: 14,
Child talents: 27,

ROW 7

#23 Wild Instincts

Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Your Aspects gain a shared additional charge.
Parent talents: 15, 18, 19,
Child talents: 28,

#24 Reinforced Hides / Hunter’s Resilience

Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Reinforced Hides: Your Armor is 25% more effective.

Hunter’s Resilience: Periodic damage taken reduced by 6%.
Parent talents: 20, 19,
Child talents: 29, 28,

#25 Scatter Shot / Bursting Shot

Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Scatter Shot: 30 sec cooldown. A short-range shot that deals (25% of Attack power) damage, removes all harmful damage over time effects, and incapacitates the target for 4 sec. If the target takes more than (200% of Attack Power) damage in that time, the effect will be cancelled early. After the effect ends, the target will be disoriented, slowing its attack and movement speed by 50% for a further 4 seconds.

Bursting Shot: 30 sec cooldown. Fires an explosion of bolts at all enemies in front of you, knocking them back, snaring them by 50% for 6 sec, and dealing (50% of Attack power) Physical damage.
Parent talents: 20,
Child talents: 29,

#26 Spotter / Hunter’s Avoidance

Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Spotter: Hunter’s Mark has a second charge and may now be used off the global cooldown.

Additionally, you share vision with your allies, and Hunter’s Mark now also increases your and your allies’ range by 20%, to a maximum of 5 extra yards, when currently targeting or having attacked the marked target within the last 4 seconds.

Hunter’s Avoidance: Damage taken from area of effect attacks reduced by 6%.
Parent talents: 20, 21,
Child talents: 30, 29,

#27 Ingenuity

Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
You may now use your trapping abilities a second time while they are on cooldown to activate them manually. Manual activations have a 50% greater initial radius of effect, fading over 2 seconds.

Enemies frozen by Freezing Trap may absorb (200% of Attack Power) damage before being freed and will intercept incoming unfriendly damage passing through them. Upon breaking free, the absorbed damage will be dealt to that target and all enemies nearby as Frost damage.

High-Explosive Trap will also daze its victims, slowing their attack, movement, and casting speeds by 50%, fading over 5 seconds.

Tar Trap additionally applies Especially Sticky Tar, slowing attack speed by 50% and casting speeds by 25% for 4 seconds. This effect is refreshed when Entrapment breaks.

Binding Trap may now draw in enemies it moves across on the way to its destination before activating an additional time upon arriving.
Parent talents: 17, 22, 21,
Child talents: 30,

ROW 8

#28 Beast Master

Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
Rank 1: Pet damage dealt increased by 3% and pet damage taken reduced by 6%.

Rank 2: Pet damage dealt increased by 6% and pet damage taken reduced by 12%.
Parent talents: 23, 24,
Child talents: 31, 32,

#29 Master Marksman

Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
Rank 1: Your critical strike damage is increased by 6%.

Rank 2: Your critical strike damage is increased by 12%.
Parent talents: 24, 25, 26,
Child talents: 32, 33, 37,

#30 Keen Eyesight

Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
Rank 1: Critical strike chance increased by 2%.

Rank 2: Critical strike chance increased by 4%.
Parent talents: 26, 27,
Child talents: 34, 33,

ROW 9

#31 Improved Kill Command

Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
Rank 1: Kill Command damage increased by 5%.

Rank 2: Kill Command damage increased by 10%.
Parent talents: 28,
Child talents: 35, 36,

#32 Wild Quiver

Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
Rank 1: Your critical strikes increase your auto-attack speed and damage by 20% for 3 seconds and cause your next auto-attack to also strike up to 5 nearby enemies. Multiple applications may overlap simultaneously.

Rank 2: Your critical strikes increase your auto-attack speed and damage by 40% for 3 seconds and cause your next auto-attack to also strike up to 5 nearby enemies. Multiple applications may overlap simultaneously.

Critical strikes that deal more than the normal double damage have proportionately greater impact.

:: These auto-attacks dealt to additional enemies do not trigger further events specific to auto-attacks.
Parent talents: 29, 28,
Child talents: 37, 36,

#33 Serrated Shots

Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
Rank 1: Your periodic damage dealt is increased by 10%. This value is increased to 20% against targets below 30% health.

Rank 2: Your periodic damage dealt is increased by 20%. This value is increased to 40% against targets below 30% health.
Parent talents: 30, 29,
Child talents: 38, 37,

#34 Serpent Sting

Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
Fire a shot that poisons your target, causing them to take (40% of Attack Power) Nature damage instantly and a further (120% of Attack Power) Nature damage over 18 seconds.
Parent talents: 30,
Child talents: 39, 38,

ROW 10

#35 Stampede

Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
2-minute cooldown.

Summon a herd of stampeding animals from the wilds around you that deal [(25% of Attack power) * 6] Physical damage to your enemies over 12 sec.

Enemies struck by the stampede are snared by 30%, and you have 10% increased critical strike chance against them for 8 sec.
Parent talents: 31,
Child talents:

#36 Death Chakram

Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
Throw a deadly chakram at your current target that will rapidly deal (100% of Attack power) Physical damage 7 times, bouncing to other targets if they are nearby. Enemies struck by Death Chakram take 10% more damage from you and your pet for 8 sec.

Each time the chakram deals damage to a new, additional target, its damage is increased by 20% and you generate 2.5% Haste for 8 seconds.
Parent talents: 31, 32,
Child talents:

#37 Explosive Shot / Barrage

Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
Fires an explosive shot at your target. After 3 sec, the shot will explode, dealing (238.7% of Attack power) Fire damage to all enemies within 8 yds. Deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets.

Consumes 20 Focus per second. Rapidly fires a spray of shots for up to 3 sec, dealing an average of [(20% of Attack power)% * 11] Physical damage to all nearby enemies in front of you. Usable while moving. Deals reduced damage beyond 8 targets.
Parent talents: 32, 33, 29,
Child talents:

#38 Steel Trap / Immolation Trap

Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
Steel Trap: Hurls a Steel Trap to the target location that snaps shut on the first enemy that approaches, immobilizing them for 20 sec and causing them to bleed for (160% of Attack power) damage over 20 sec.

Damage other than Steel Trap may break the immobilization effect, with players twice as likely to be broken free. Trap will exist for 1 min. Limit 1.

Immolation Trap: Hurls a fire trap to the target location that sets alight the first enemy that approaches, dealing (160% of Attack Power) Fire damage over 20 seconds and spreading to up to 5 other enemies it passes near to for its remaining duration.
Parent talents: 33, 34,
Child talents:

#39 Poison Injection / Hydra’s Bite

Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
Poison Injection: Each time Serpent Sting deals damage, it gains a stack. These further stacks do not refresh the original’s duration nor increase its damage, but will be consumed for an instant (21% of Attack Power) Nature damage each when struck by [Aimed Shot | Kill Command | Raptor Strike].

Hydra’s Bite: Serpent Sting fires arrows at 2 additional enemy near your target, and its damage over time is increased by 20%. Other skills and effects which also apply Serpent Sting will apply it to 2 further enemies.
Parent talents: 34,
Child talents:

Likely / Frequently Asked Questions

...

To be filled in as we go.

#1

How is all this 30-minutes’ work?

One can work damn quickly on TTM, and some of these ideas had been buzzing around my head for a while. Correcting the “readable” export has taken at least as long.

4 Likes
2

do you feel with both primal rage and bear fort being targeted, the hunter would feel less inclined to use it on themselves to shore up their own defensives and instead use it on someone else? or rather, do you feel it would increase cognitive load on the players having two externals as a dps spec, something usually not seen?

3

Yes to both. That said, if not for the sheer value of Predator’s Thirst over its competitors until a Tenacity pet may become necessary, I feel we’d already often enough face that cognitive load via our Cunning pets, and I do feel that Hunter would be a good place for said cognitive load. We should be coordinating the pack, both through “our own” actions and what we can exploit among our party’s outputs or mitigate among their needs, so long as our on-allies application has a mostly shared (e.g., ultimately offensive) theme.

  • Iirc, in prior expansions there were a few snare-tied DoTs nullifiable just by purging that snare. With Master’s Call (now called Free Flight) now also increasing movement speed, that’d be all the more significant.

That said, given more time, I would likely have axed Fortitude of the Bear entirely, replacing it with Den Guardian (“Hunter Intervene”) or something similar.

Accordingly, some of the changes I still need to make are to Tenacity’s Endurance Training and Cunning’s Pathfinding (to be renamed, to avoid the current redundancy).

I also missed part of the language on Farstrider (receiving an attack should also nullify it, even though [periodic/raidwide] damage itself should not) and doubtless a couple other little things, so I’ll make those revisions soon.

1 Like
4

Surely still an immunity

There’s a reason why smokebomb got pruned from PvE

1 min 50% dr external is funny

So something that blizzard wants to actively move away from (extra range for melees) all while also blocking off personal survival

I wouldn’t even say that this tree is better, it’s overloaded with choice nodes, has the same basic +dmg passive nodes that people complain about, but i guess it does make us more OP

Also like the part of design where 6 out of 8 capstone abilities just actively anti bm.

5

Only the parts mentioned in a given stated change are being changed (in this case, the additional DR, from 30% to 60%). Changing one component of a skill’s effect does not remove all others.

Ignoring that it has a finite value, tuning is obviously still required.

This is, after all, a 30-minute mock-up focused on layout and debloating, as per the title and the sentence immediately beneath it.

:: Compare also to Arm’s 100% self-and-ally DR against physical attacks for 6 seconds per 90 seconds via DBtS+Intervene or BoP-Vene cheese, etc.

The extension for melee would be… 1 yard. And the DF changes would imply anything but their wanting to stay away from extra range for melee.

Spotter is a niche choice meant primarily for M+ situations with especially limited space or tricky footing. Hunter’s Avoidance would be the normal pick.

They’re… the same capstones, apart from Alpha Predator being accessible in the entry tier and its slot being taken up by a separate Stampede, allowing one to simultaneously take Chakram and Stampede.

...All of which is a buff to BM over what was there before:

Most Popular Beast Mastery Capstones Now:

  • 6% bonus pet damage
  • 10% bonus KC damage
  • Alpha Predator
  • 10% increased Serpent Sting and Bleed damage (20% under 35%)
  • Death Chakram
  • 4% increased critical strike chance
  • 15% bleed from crits

Likely Beast Mastery Capstones per Suggestions:

  • Alpha Predator (acquired far earlier)
  • 6% bonus pet damage and 12% pet DR
  • 10% bonus KC damage
  • Death Chakram
    AND two-and-a-half among any of…
  • 20% greater periodic damage (40% under 35% HP)
  • 40% greater AA speed and damage and AA cleave after a crit (3s)
  • 4% greater crit chance
  • 12% greater crit damage
    • (Faintly nerfed as to be less obligatory; rather than overtaking Keen Eyesight by at most 26.7% crit chance, it’s thereby been pushed back to 33.3%.)
6

Thank you for your effort, there are a lot of great ideas there! I like it a lot

If the devs made the same effort and had the same passion, hunter would be one of the best designed classes for sure

7

So it’s the same issues with redesign where you’re locked into ± same abilities, but now with more passive dmg bonuses ?

Like you do realize that you changed nothing about design and it’s potential issues besides putting in more % fluff earlier in the tree ?

Like sure, it’s a generic tree but with your “i did much better job” we still end at the same spot where all of those % gains will also likely get munched the moment any tuning pass happens.

(Ignoring that % AA is problematic since it’s not decoupled from pets, and that you’d basically always run that + crit)

8

There was no % fluff added to the early tree. It simply trimmed Concussive Shot, Kill Shot, Improved Kill Shot (a “% fluff talent”), Countershot, and Misdirection, and moved Alpha Predator | Killer Instinct, Survival of the Fittest, Lone Survivor | Nature’s Endurance, and Tar Trap up into their places.

And in mid-tree, the number of two-point nodes was cut in half while each active was improved. The only thing remotely similar to a “%fluff” talent added was Hunter’s Resilience / Reinforced Hides, a single node, in place of Binding Shackles to create a nice little trio of “Hunter’s X” talents.

Hunter’s Avoidance and Pathfinding [replaced by Hunter’s Agility] were already in the game. Born to be Wild and Improved Traps, the only other %talents, were likewise already in the game, but at only half their effectiveness here. And that’s it. That’s all the %talents. 2 removed. One added.

I wholly disagree, but we’d be running in circles debating that until you actually set out conclusively what those issues are.

To me, the primary issues were something like…

  • Poor pathing choice.
    • See 3 the free-path nodes and every talent not entirely dependent on the one before it having at least two parent nodes.
  • The comparative shorting of baseline tools (having to talent what others get for free).
    • See the baselining of Kill Shot, Concussive Shot, Countershot, and Misdirection.
  • Lackluster value per talent point across a majority of pre-capstone talents.
    • Which has seen obvious address.
  • Talents dysfunctional for PvE combat.
    • See old Trailblazing, now Farstrider. Also Wilderness Medicine (for so long as even BM pets remain poor tanks), which now includes slight hunter healing components.
  • Defensive improvement talents being overly obligatory as to take up an overlarge portion of total talent expenditure especially given the cost taken up by baseline tools.
    • Dealt with here through sometimes-subtle functionality changes, soft buffs, or cooldown reductions and some tweaks to their improving talents such that one need not take all all of them to have comparable survivability to other classes’ meta builds.

What % gains?

There are literally no %dmg talents until capstone tier… which are the exact same ones we have now.

The only added damage is for BM and solely from having, in effect, one more capstone talent than before now that Alpha Predator is available earlier and from Death Chakram being more broadly accessible.

Survivability-wise, we got slightly more access to self-healing and anti-rot in place of the simple additional passive health, to the roughly same net effect in survivability but lesser healer-drain and at less talent cost. That’s it.

Both capacities are virtually unchanged except for slightly greater responsiveness in defensive tools and slightly greater self-healing in place of passive HP.

I will adjust the wording to make more clear that these bonus multi-target AoEs go off only from your own attacks. The idea is that you choose between greater Barbed Shot generation via this talent or more raw damage from other means. Again, tuning in progress.

Tl;dr: I appreciate feedback where it points at what’s here but… where tf are these “% fluff” talents being added compared to the current tree? Despite removing several talents’ worth of them, only one was added — in place of Shackles, at that. That’s a significant net reduction, not an increase.

9
  • 20% greater periodic damage (40% under 35% HP)
  • 40% greater AA speed and damage and AA cleave after a crit (3s)
  • 4% greater crit chance
  • 12% greater crit damage

Those are % amps, they’re not procs that realistically modify your rotation/etc.

And again, it’s not like it’s horrible but the issue is that if we’re looking at this as re-design but we end up with effectively the same thing as we have right now with a bit more of passive non gameplay affecting bonuses and DR Externals of a dps class we solve no potential issues while gaining a few new ones.

Everyone is very quickly very critical of blizzard doing small changes, but here we’ve drastically overloaded a tree with prob more choice nodes than any other class by i’d assume a factor of 2 if not more, for not really any gameplay improvements.

10

Those are…

  • Serrated Shots
    • (unchanged except in no longer wasting Dark Ranger value since it also affects Shadow periodic damage)
  • (New) Bolas → Now a bonus-AA-cleave proc
    • (quite a bit more noticeable and able to synergize differently with Barbed Shots than does Serrated, by increasing their rate of generation instead of individual damage; from what we’ve seen of changes to other classes, they want to drastically reduce natural proc rates and available resource, and have been removing “easy mode” talents, into which Savagery definitely fits)
  • Keen Eyesight
    • (unchanged)
  • Master Marksman
    • (faintly tuned down to be less obligatory; takes until 33% Crit to be obligatory instead of a mere 27%)

All but one, which requires a proc and is noticeable in gameplay when it goes off (in place of Bolas, which was unusable by BM and is not noticeable in gameplay), are the existing talents.

You said “added”. None were added. One was swapped to something more interesting. The rest are the existing effects.

Across the tree there are net fewer, not more, “passive, non-gameplay-affecting” talents.

And since when have choice nodes been a problem? Each redesign for the better has tended to have more parent choice nodes, not fewer, since it reduces the chance of having to path through something personally undesirable. Even the revamped TWW class trees tend to have more parent choice nodes, not fewer.

11

You’re not changing anything about your rotation.
You’re pressing same buttons as previously in the same priority as previously.

Again, there no net gain in re-design except op externals

12

Not everything noticeable is rotation-flipping.

  • Lock and Load is noticeable, yet it does not change your rotation.
  • Wildfire Bomb resets/cooldown-reductions are noticeable, yet they do not change your rotation.
  • Barbed Shot resets are noticeable, yet they do not change your rotation.

Tell me, what do you think would ever make BM change its priority order under meta builds without just removing the whole concept/bounds of its Mastery and buffing a random skill to high hell?

Apply that logic —that anything which does not alter your priority order is “fluff”— to any other class. What would actually pass muster?

Which? The 50% value Intervene, with an indirect damage cap, on double the cooldown? The one-target Rallying Cry? All of which would come at cost to using them on self (unlike, say, BoP/BoSW, Rallying Cry, or DbtS-Intervene)?

They’re means by which you’d be unable to waste your personal tools / be able bend them to the needs of your party. They’re not free or additional.