Honestly at this point I dont see them releasing it early. At this point I just want to know what was the reason for it being released so late?
4 Likes
Never to late, should just release it on next reset and let people get their tier sets. The purpose of it is to help people catching up and bad luck protection. I’ll go ahead and speak for our only member in our raidteam which has killed all the tier bosses on heroic and normal combined 42 times and also two mythic tier bosses kills and yet has no 4-set. He has maximized his vaults aswell with raid and M+ options.
Timegating or restricting access to parts of the game like this usually doesn’t make it more fun. It wasn’t more fun to get my legendary 4 weeks into to the patch than it would’ve been to have it instantly or like a week into the patch.
8 Likes
Address the communities concerns on this topic. This is top of mind for everyone in the small community I’m apart of, in which nobody is happy with the implementation. When I look outside of my own community it appears that the sentiment is even more negative.
9 Likes
+1 everyone single person ive PvPed with and raided with and done mythic plus with has said the same thing
7 Likes
I’m not saying the Catalyst shouldn’t come out right away now… but the way tier is being given is simultaneously better and worse than when we had tier before.
It’s worse because Master Looter does not exist, and some people cannot trade tier they don’t “need” (5th piece, already have slot just at lower ilvl, etc)
It’s better because the Great Vault exists.
In the past, if you didn’t get tier, it was just reclear until you did or someone could trade/allocate it to you.
Yes the catalyst is coming in a few weeks, yes it sucks to not have a full tier set, or any tier pieces this far into the raid. It’s bad luck, the catalyst is protection against that bad luck. It will likely be a good system, especially for alts, but at this point in a tier in the past it would not be uncommon for people to not have tier either.
2 Likes
Unfortunately this time tier and its acquisition method applies to PvP too, and in no previous expansion would PvPers be without critical set bonuses because A) PvE tier was nerfed in PvP and didn’t matter and B) PvP gear had its own bonuses and they were on honor gear and crafted gear too.
Maybe this would be OK if tier was only for raiding, but causing PvP and M+ to only have access to tier through the vault for 8 weeks was a serious misplay.
12 Likes
I really feel like not allowing people to trade tier until they have already looted a tier piece at that item level was a serious mistake. It’s starting to become a pain point to see people looting 5 pieces and being unable to trade their fifth piece away because they happened to not have looted that specific piece before.
At this point I don’t expect to see the Creation Catalyst available until its scheduled release on April 12th, and I feel like it’s going to become another pain point when people realize that they have waited this long for a guaranteed tier (as mentioned, people who don’t raid have only had chances from the vault), only to be able to initially craft only one piece per week.
This has been one of the most painful timegates ever implemented in the game, because some tier sets are far stronger for certain classes. As a Warlock player I need 4 piece if I want to play Destruction in any serious capacity, and it is extremely strong for Demonology as well, while Havoc Demon Hunters (who share a tier token with Warlocks) have one of the weaker tier sets. As luck would have it, in my guild at least, both our DHs have 4p while both Warlocks are still struggling to complete 4p.
Please reconsider the Creation Catalyst release date, at least.
12 Likes
Gotta be something along these lines to change because I think 90% of the community agrees it needs to change but Blizzard will keep the timegating for “internal research has shown…” “the vision behind this is…” reasons which is a real let down for everyone playing since the literal voice from the game playing people right now is to change it.
10 Likes
- Equipment purchased from Rafiq in Pigrim’s Grace, Zereth Mortis is now compatible with the Creation Catalyst and can be converted to tier set pieces.
So in the latest hotfixes we can now turn sandworn relic gear into tier pieces, which I think is great! This is going to let us casuals play around with tier sets in a way that doesn’t force more endgame-oriented players to partake in content they don’t want.
Going forward into the future, I hope this is going to keep being a thing in the coming expansions. The creation catalyst has had a rocky start (still hasn’t started ;>) but with some tweaks in future iterations, it might become a great way to let us acquire tier gear deterministically. Tier sets used to be a raid thing exclusively, but I think it’s nice that it’s opening up for everyone, including casuals!
5 Likes
Use to be no rng bought from the vendor for PvP but they forcing people to raid and pray for vault choices on top of tier bonus instead of plain gear. Basically punishing PvPers as we have no way besides catalyst to guarantee tier before its released
3 Likes
This was definitely one of my concerns. Maizou has 252s to upgrade from Normal and the +2s I’ve been doing, but my alts I don’t do those on, lol. So I was like “oh god, I have to luck into getting an LFR piece to drop?”
Though I do still wish the Sandworn Relics were BoA. Maizou has like 2000 or 3000 but doesn’t need them. My alts have only a bit and really could use them.
1 Like
Why can’t any of you say something on this topic? In the interview with MD he acknowledged that you were keeping an eye on it and talking about timing.
Isn’t that what this forum is for? You enlisted an army of volunteers to provide feedback then leave threads on read for months without a saying a word.
Communicate!
Why are we so at odds with our viewpoints on this system? The last blue response in this thread, which is among the highest activity threads in the community council forums, was MONTHS ago and didn’t even directly address the feedback in the thread. It just linked out to a PTR update, and those links 404 now.
I don’t understand the point of the community council if you’re just going to ignore the most important discussions and stick to your original plans without discussion, feedback, or providing insight.
16 Likes
From what ive experienced (watching game dev documentaries) they seem to read most things and comment way later after touching multiple bases or so it would seem but im gonna guess someone eventually tells them “say nothing” which if it is true (again guessing) its basically what happened with Cyberpunk/Battlefield 2042 they know that if they say something then most people will just crucify them which is unfortunately bad news for everyone who wants answers or changes but even worse for the devs who actually want to make changes but cant (again all guesses)
As a reminder there is a thread for this type of discussion here:
Personally, I still believe it’s a discussion worth having.
People have said it and I think its worth saying again but when the Catalyst comes out it should be two charges for the first week so people can actually get the bonus
2 Likes
Can we get a walkthru quest to reduce the people who are going to be expecting tier bonuses on non-tier pieces ? seems its not common knowledge
1 Like
Looking at the past we mostly had 3 tier tokens for 25 and then 20 players in mythic difficulty. In TBC (where the first increase from 2 to 3 occured) we had slower progression and gearing pacing in general since the player base wide progression curve was much more stretched out and not planned out to basically finish each tier for most of them. This process has now accelerated in general and a certain standard has become the expectation.
Now this is down to 2 for all difficulties with trade restrictions that also never existed to that degree before. From my experience the great vault does not compensate for the lack of raid drops specifically for those players that otherwise would have received that 3rd piece for tier. Keep in mind that back then 3 pieces for 20 players were a given from doing just the raid - discarding bonus rolls that might have resulted in another token for the entire raid every other boss or so.
We have a clearly measurable additional time effort that will break down in huge differences across an entire raid group to result in the overall gearing pace. So back in Legion it might have been possible to get 4 tokens per token boss kill while today that number is definitely down to 2 (for a 20 player grp). Meanwhile the RWF (as mentioned above) showcases a scenario where acquiring a full set is doable in a timespan of a few weeks regardless of the daily time investment.
Overall a raid grp (at least for mythic) needs north of 100 token drops (at least 50 token boss kills overall) with the right distribution to secure a maxed out performance gain on that part of the gearing process. And here exists a sharp binary outcome especially when it comes to splitting up damage/burst responsibilities on multiple targets.
So Tier sets returned only to become more sparse than before instead of “celebrating” their return in comparatively overcompensation (3+ pieces per 20 players). The only point that could be made long term is the surplus of unused tier drops a couple months down the line whereas in post MoP tiers there was at least a chance of war/titanforging a token proc into a more beneficial stat boost. But that is another topic on how to do titanforging better (deterministic, leveraging surplus gear as somewhat regular upgrade tokens etc).
Long term goals for Shards of Domination (discarding initial acquisition problems due to drop pacing and chance) as well as Azerite gear were to provide a slight incremental gain from basic power boosts via ilvl progression. This is now no longer the case, so why must this process on a larger scale still be this time consuming with a wide array of effort across a larger group of players?
In other words:
Back then you did your raid progression and everyone kinda got their tier at some point. Now with PL, trade restrictions and the vault the effort can vary by a larger factor between a player that is getting lucky and another that just isn’t.
I bought a sandworn cloak from Rafiq in Pilgrim’s Grace on my Shaman and took it to the Creation Catalyst. At the catalyst it does not show as an eligible item. I posted in the bugs forum the day the catalyst went live. As It still remains an ineligible item I assume that this is intended despite the post above from the April 5th hotfixes clearly indicating “equipment” with no specified limitations. Could clarification please be provided as to whether this item should or should not be eligible for catalyzation? If not, could some explanation be provided for clarity?
As an Update: The rest of the pieces appear to catalyze correctly just not the cloaks. Still the case as of April 27th …
3 Likes
I thought I’d mention something related to PvP tier set acquisition.
I play an Arcane Mage in PvP. All of the vendor cloth conquest gear uses the Warlock and Priest transmogs. In order to get the Mage Conquest set transmog you literally have to use the creation catalyst to get every single piece. In addition arcane mages are itemized for haste and very few of the catalyzed Mage PvP tier set pieces have haste. I can either collect the set with massively screwed up stats or keep the stats I want and not have the class set appearance. Can some sort of appearance item be made available for people who already have individual conquest items to at least LOOK like their class with the stats they pick from the vendor pieces?
1 Like
Wish it would adapt to which spec you are choosing or just let us choose ourselves