[9.1.5 PTR] Announced changes to the Hunter class

[Fabfour-alexstrasza]

I hope they rethink the flayed shot changes. It is already turning out to be the best single target covenant ability and now they are buffing it further. Why not buff the other covenants and give us an actual choice. Venthyr vs Necro will be no different than +5 crit vs improved sap for a vanilla rogue. It is not a choice if one ability is way ahead of all others.

[Kabbie-turalyon (Kabbie)]

@Brigadester-silvermoon

Their aoe is currently incredibly strong without it and they are still getting some abilities uncapped.

“currently”

[Bullëtproof-zuljin]

How much further behind is M+ BM going to get left behind after these changes?

MM is already solidly ahead.

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

Edit:

More changes announced for the PTR

Source: https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-9-1-5-ptr-datamined-class-and-spell-changes-for-build-39977-necrolord-324021

General

Spells (2)

Note: The Death Chakram tooltip says 3%, but the spell data indicates that the buff is 10%.

• Death Chakram Throw a deadly chakram at your current target that will rapidly deal (31.6% of Attack power) Shadow damage 7 times, bouncing to other targets if they are nearby. Enemies struck by your Death Chakram take 3% more Physical damage from you and your pet for 10 sec.
  Each time the chakram deals damage, its damage is increased by 15% and you generate 3 Focus.

  • NEW Effect #5 Apply Aura: Mod Damage From Caster % Modifies Buff Duration
    Value: 10

  • NEW Effect #6 Apply Aura: Mod Damage Taken From Caster Pet % Modifies Damage/Healing Done
    Value: 10

  • NEW Effect #7 Apply Aura: Mod Damage Taken From Caster % Modifies Damage/Healing Done

Duration changed from 0 ms to 10 sec

+Some stuff with anima powers.

[Aonax-magtheridon]

The Death Chakram change would be more exciting if it was just damage and not classified. It has the biggest prospect for Survival Hunter AOE and multi DOTing combined with its legendary but the problem is Wildfire Bomb and Explosive Shot are both Fire damage and Serpent Sing is Nature damage. This might end up being substantial for BM hunters who apart from a couple talents (Spitting Cobra and Chimera Shot) do all our damage as physical.

I expect a lot more changes before this patch hits live servers as we haven’t seen Blizzard touch on a ton of aoe spells. They also noted in there initial blog post that they are going to be looking at a number of talents and legendary powers. Hopefully they will realize how many Hunter Legendries just don’t add much value even if we were allowed to equip a second.

@Saberlocke-medivh

I was also wanting to point this out. If they don’t uncap trick shots, MM will utterly wither in M+ content…

That is not necessarily the case. Trick shot has been target caped at 5 for as long as I can remember. It is also likely that Multi Shot will have its cap removed and fallow the new rule set. This will benefit MM heavily because of Precise Shots which buffs Multi shots damage. Right now both BM and MM have a number of struggles when it comes to AOE. Right now I want to see some sort of AOE legendries implemented for both MM and BM. For MM something like " Multi Shot Fires and additional arrows and Trick shot dose additional damage" For BM I would like to see “Beast Cleave lasts 100% longer and dose slightly more damage.”

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

@Aonax-magtheridon

I expect a lot more changes before this patch hits live servers as we haven’t seen Blizzard touch on a ton of aoe spells. They also noted in there initial blog post that they are going to be looking at a number of talents and legendary powers. Hopefully they will realize how many Hunter Legendries just don’t add much value even if we were allowed to equip a second

Yep, fingers crossed.

I made this post in another topic in regards to the current state of BM. Ofc you can argue it to be too much for any mid-xpac patch but yeah, one can but hope for the future.

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My current thoughts on Beast Mastery

Cliff notes-version:

Core Abilities

• Reduce the Focus cost of Kill Command by 5 for each enemy you hit with Multi-Shot.
• Make A Murder of Crows into a baseline ability for this spec(BM). Same base funcionality/design(more options through talents).

Major Cooldown

• Add a Focus cost-reduction to other abilities during BW, when it’s active. Similar to the Legion-lego effect(Roar of the Seven Lions).
• Remove Aspect of the Wild entirely.

Mastery Bonus

• Make Mastery slightly more effective by adding a scaling component for the damage bonus granted by Bestial Wrath. See the full concept link below for specifics.

Passive Effects

• Make Animal Companion a passive choice for us, one that does not affect our damage but rather is just a cosmetic option. Again, see the full concept for specifics.
• Extend the duration of Beast Cleave from 4 sec up to 5, to allow for some leeway in terms of maintenance and ability usage.
• Make Kill Command benefit from Beast Cleave, dealing reduced damage to nearby enemies.
• Increase the proc chance of Wild Call from 20% up to 25%.

Utility & Defensives (Class-wide)

• [Posthaste] - Should become a baseline effect.
• [Master’s Call] - Should be reverted back to a baseline ability.
• [Pet Specializations] - Make Ferocity, Tenacity, and Cunning changeable for individual pets again, like it worked in Legion.
• [Revive Pet] - Preferably, reduce the cast time down to 2 seconds again.
• [Camouflage] - Should be reverted back to a baseline ability.

This section also includes some changes to talents that focus on utility. See the full concept below for specifics.

Talents

• Change BM talents, in addition to what’s mentioned above, in several ways to allow for more interesting and impactful choices to be possible. Some talents are more or less useless and have been so for a very long time.
  This section covers changes/replacements to multiple talents so click on the expandable tab below, or check the full concept(linked post) for details.

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Changes to specific talents - Click here to expand

Talents

– Level 15 –

[Killer Instinct] - Kill Command deals 45% increased damage against enemies below 35% health.

Kill Command deals an additional 10% damage against bleeding targets.

[Bloodshed] - 50 yd range - Instant - 1 min cooldown
Command your pet(s) to tear into your target, causing your target to bleed for X damage over 18 sec, and increase all damage taken from your pet(s) by 15% for 18 sec.

[Dire Beast] - (Replaces Barbed Shot) - Instant - 12 sec recharge - 2 Charges
Summons a powerful wild beast that attacks the target for 8 sec.

Generates 20 Focus over 8 sec.

– Level 25 –

[Scent of Blood] - Activating Bestial Wrath grants 2 charges of Barbed Shot/Dire Beast.

[One with the Pack] - Wild Call has a 20% increased chance to reset the cooldown of Barbed Shot/Dire Beast.

Using Barbed Shot/Dire Beast increases your Haste by 5% for 12 sec.

[Feeding Frenzy] - Damage dealt by Barbed Shot increased by X%. When the periodic damage effect applied by Barbed Shot is refreshed, the remaining damage will be added to the new effect, and it now lasts for a total of 9 sec.

In addition, Frenzy’s duration is also increased to 9 seconds.

• Dire Frenzy(Requires talent: Dire Beast)
  Each time a Dire Beast is called, the damage dealt by your main pet(s) is increased by 1%.
  When you activate Bestial Wrath, this consumes all stacks of Dire Frenzy and increases the initial damage dealt by Bestial Wrath by 30% for each stack that is consumed.

– Level 30 –

[Trailblazer] - [Natural Mending]

[Bestial Dicipline] - While your pet is active, you and your pet(s) regenerate X% of total health every 3 sec. Healing done to you and your pet(s) is increased by X%.

Damage taken by your pet(s) is reduced by 15%

– Level 35 --

[Spitting Cobra] - Bestial Wrath also summons a Spitting Cobra to aid you in combat for 15 sec. Each Cobra Shot used during Bestial Wrath extends the remaining duration of the Spitting Cobra by 1 sec.

[Thrill of the Hunt] - Barbed Shot/Dire Beast reduces the remaining cooldown of Bestial Wrath by an additional 4 sec.

Barbed Shot/Dire Beast increases your critical strike chance by 5% for 12 seconds.

[Birds of Prey] - Kill Command extends the remaining duration of A Murder of Crows by 2 sec.

Damage of A Murder of Crows is increased by X%.

– Level 40 –

[Born to be Wild] - [Binding Shot]

[Adaption] - (Replaces Posthaste) Getting hit with an incapacitating effect(Stun/Fear), reduces the remaining cooldown of your Aspect of the Turtle by 30%. This effect has an internal cooldown of X sec.

Aspect of the Turtle is now usable when incapacitated.

When rooted or slowed, the remaining cooldown of Aspect of the Cheetah is reduced by 15 seconds. Aspect of the Cheetah frees you from movement impairing effects and you cannot be slowed below 100% movement speed while it’s active.

– Level 45 –

[Stomp] - When you cast Barbed Shot/Dire Beast, your pet stomps the ground, dealing X Physical damage to all nearby enemies.

[Chimaera Shot] - Instant cast - 15 sec cooldown
A two-headed shot that hits your primary target and another nearby target, dealing X Nature damage to one and X Frost damage to the other.

Generates 10 Focus for each target hit.

[Talon Frenzy] - While Beast Cleave is active, A Murder of Crows affects up to 8 enemies near the primary target.

– Level 50 –

[Aspect of the Beast] - Increases the damage and healing of your pet’s abilities by 30%.

Increases the effectiveness of your pet’s Predator’s Thirst, Endurance Training, and Pathfinding passives by 50%.

[Stampede] - Instant cast - 30 sec duration - 2 min cooldown
Summons 5 of your stabled pets to fight for you for 30 sec. These pets deal X% of normal damage and obey your Kill Command.

Pets summoned by Stampede heal themselves for 200% of the damage they deal.

[Unleashed Fury] - Instant cast - 20 sec cooldown
Sends your pet into a rage, causing it to deal X Physical damage to the target in a flurry of 5 attacks. Damage dealt is increased by X% for every stack of Frenzy the pet currently has.

When this ability is used, your pet will let out a savage roar, increasing your haste by 10% for 12 sec.

• Bestial Fury(Requires talent: Dire Beast)
  Damage dealt by Dire Beasts during Bestial Wrath is increased by another X%.
  Any Dire Beasts called during Bestial Wrath will have their duration increased by an additonal X sec. This also applies to Dire Beasts who have already been called to fight when Bestial Wrath is activated. Attacks made by Dire Beasts will now also benefit from Beast Cleave, if activated.

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Full concept and specifics:

Beast Mastery - future improvements[Partial rework]

I know this is a big overkill in terms of suggestions for a 0.5 patch(any mid-expansion patch really). But I though I’d take another look at what I would like to see from Beast Mastery in the future, based on it’s current design. Some things, such as a lack of potential single-target burst, cleave, or burst AoE/AoE in general, have been mentioned by others in regards to the spec several times both recently and further back in time. Along with the “squishy” nature of Hunters. Hopefully, some of …

[Watermist-skywall (Watermist)]

@Ghorak-laughing-skull

+Some stuff with anima powers

I’m starting to think that I’m the only one excited by this change…

[Jaggles-lightbringer]

Why do we have three different ways of generating the same resource? Why does SV rely on a pet to do so when BM is really the pet spec?

My thoughts:

• Barbed Shot should be the focus generator for all 3 specs
• The Conc Shot/Cobra Shot interaction should be the same with every focus dump. So Conc/Cobra, Conc/Arcane, Wing Clip/Raptor would all add duration to the slow. If kiting is the primary source of mitigation for Hunters, build that into our kit.
• If homogenizing focus generation is out, make Steady Shot instant. No reason this needs a cast time.

[Malcvi-stormrage]

@Jaggles-lightbringer

• Barbed Shot should be the focus generator for all 3 specs
• The Conc Shot/Cobra Shot interaction should be the same with every focus dump. So Conc/Cobra, Conc/Arcane, Wing Clip/Raptor would all add duration to the slow. If kiting is the primary source of mitigation for Hunters, build that into our kit.
• If homogenizing focus generation is out, make Steady Shot instant. No reason this needs a cast time.

No thanks, mate.

[Jaggles-lightbringer]

SOLID rebuttal.

[Shadowaxe-mannoroth (Shadowaxe)]

I like where SV is now. With the change to Flayed shot, it will increase our ST abilities. With the Razor build this will be very interesting moving forward.

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

@Watermist-skywall

I’m starting to think that I’m the only one excited by this change

Maybe not the only one but…yeah, sorry

For me at least, unless they vastly rework how Torghast is intended to be played, I just can’t see myself enjoying it anytime soon. Especially as much of it’s intended focus is for players to do it as a weekly chore just to keep up with player power levels(in combination with how much I dislike their approach to the craftable base items for Legendary effects).

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

@Jaggles-lightbringer

Why do we have three different ways of generating the same resource?

You mean on a class-wide basis?

Spec-fantasy(and identity), immersion, theme-accuracy, etc.

@Jaggles-lightbringer

Why does SV rely on a pet to do so when BM is really the pet spec?

Honestly, I have no clue where their heads were at when they came up with the current design for SV.

And (salty rant inc), considering their arguments as to why they thought it was justified to scrap the old RSV from pre-Legion, it(the current design of SV) makes no sense whatsoever.

@Jaggles-lightbringer

Barbed Shot should be the focus generator for all 3 specs

I can’t agree with this I’m afraid. Why would you want this to be the case? While one can argue that all specs of a particular class should follow a certain theme, a certain class-wide fantasy, there’s no point in creating multiple specs if you’re just going to have several key parts of each spec be the same as the other ones.

@Jaggles-lightbringer

The Conc Shot/Cobra Shot interaction should be the same with every focus dump. So Conc/Cobra, Conc/Arcane, Wing Clip/Raptor would all add duration to the slow. If kiting is the primary source of mitigation for Hunters, build that into our kit.

For BM, it’s Concussive Shot + Cobra Shot

For MM, it’s Concussive Shot + Steady Shot

For SV, Wing Clip does not have a cooldown but instead a Focus cost. And it lasts for 15 seconds, compared to Concussive Shot which only lasts for 6 seconds.

@Jaggles-lightbringer

If homogenizing focus generation is out, make Steady Shot instant. No reason this needs a cast time.

There are probably several reasons as for why Steady Shot has a cast time, one of which has to do with theme. But mechanical application/pacing etc, also plays into it.

[Krestis-trollbane]

They need to make Trick Shots work on 2 targets if they plan not to increase the cap. They also need to fix the bug with BM hunters, Wild Spirits, and Stomp interaction. No reason for it to still be getting 2 procs for one keypress after they made such a huge stink over MM and SST.

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

Edit:

Added link to new tamable pet models in the OP
#[9.1.5 PTR] Announced changes to the Hunter class

[Taigertraps-darkspear]

@Jaggles-lightbringer

Why does SV rely on a pet to do so when BM is really the pet spec?

SV is more like fighting side by side fantasy
BM is more like master/trainer of the beast where beasts do most of the job

[Valaerian-illidan]

I’d love to see them get rid of the CD on Carve/Butchery too. I see no reason for them to cost both focus and have a cooldown. The only other Hunter ability like this is Aimed Shot. I’m sorry, Bursting Shot too.

[Ametrine-sargeras]

@Ghorak-laughing-skull

like it worked in Legion.

This honestly sums up most classes and specs right now. What were they thinking doubling down on BfA rather than backtracking towards Legion?

[Zuggma-tichondrius]

Would it be too OP to just go ahead and proc Trick Shots whenever you cast multishot, similar to BM and Beast Cleave?

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

Updates to OP:

Click here to read about the math behind the changes/how it works:

More details on class and spell changes for Patch 9.1.5 PTR Build 40078 which includes the initial removal of the AoE Hard Caps, in exchange for soft capping and dealing reduced damage beyond 5 targets.

Hunter

Beast Mastery

• Beast Cleave After you Multi-Shot, your pet’s melee attacks also strike up to 5 other nearby enemy targetsall nearby enemies for 90% as much for the next 4 sec. Deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets.

• Multi-Shot Fires several missiles, hitting up to 5 targetsall nearby enemies within 8 yards of your current target for (12.6% of Attack power) Physical damage
  Beast Mastery (Level 32)
  and triggering Beast Cleave
  Deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets.

  • Effect #1 Dummy
    Value: 5

Talents (1)

• Barrage Rapidly fires a spray of shots for 3 sec, dealing an average of [(14.196% of Attack power)% * 11] Physical damage to up to 8all nearby enemies in front of you. Usable while moving. Deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets.

Marksmanship

• Multi-Shot Fires several missiles, hitting your current target and up to 5all enemies within 10 yards for (41.2% of Attack power) Physical damage. Deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets.

Talents (1)

• Explosive Shot Fires an explosive shot at your target. After 3 sec, the shot will explode, dealing (188.5% of Attack power) Fire damage to up to 6all enemies within 8 yards. Deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets.

  • NEW Effect #2 Dummy
    Value: 5

Survival

• Carve A sweeping attack that strikes up to 5all enemies in front of you for (28% of Attack power) Physical damage.
  Survival (Level 32)
  Deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets.
  Survival (Level 32)
  Reduces the remaining cooldown on Wildfire Bomb by 1 sec for each target hit
  , up to 5 sec
  

Talents (1)

• Butchery Attack up to 5all nearby enemies in a flurry of strikes, inflicting (88% of Attack power) Physical damage to each.
  Survival (Level 32)
  Deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets.
  Survival (Level 32)
  Reduces the remaining cooldown on Wildfire Bomb by 1 sec for each target hit
  , up to 5 sec

General

• Bag of Munitions Death Chakram now also applies Explosive Shot to every target it hits.
  Explosive Shot
  Fires an explosive shot at your target. After 3 sec, the shot will explode, dealing (188.5% of Attack power) Fire damage to up to 6all enemies within 8 yards. Deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets.

• Death Chakram Throw a deadly chakram at your current target that will rapidly deal (31.6% of Attack power) Shadow damage 7 times, bouncing to other targets if they are nearby. Enemies struck by your Death Chakram take 3%10% more Physical damage from you and your pet for 10 sec.until canceled.
  Each time the chakram deals damage, its damage is increased by 15% and you generate 3 Focus.

Death Chakram

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• REMOVED Effect #1 School Damage
  Value: 0 (AP mod: 0.316)

• REMOVED Effect #5 Apply Aura: Mod Damage From Caster % Modifies Buff Duration
  Value: 10

• REMOVED Effect #6 Apply Aura: Mod Damage Taken From Caster Pet % Modifies Damage/Healing Done
  Value: 10

• REMOVED Effect #7 Apply Aura: Mod Damage Taken From Caster % Modifies Damage/Healing Done
  Value: 10

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• NEW Effect #2 Apply Aura: Mod Damage From Caster % Modifies Buff Duration
  Value: 10

• NEW Effect #3 Apply Aura: Mod Damage Taken From Caster Pet % Modifies Damage/Healing Done
  Value: 10

• NEW Effect #4 Apply Aura: Mod Damage Taken From Caster % Modifies Damage/Healing Done
  Value: 10

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