The warsong were a warriorclan through and through. He let even fight his own servants to the death to show their value and thats happened on dailybasis. This isn’t possible for an small clan.
So sorry to end your fantasy but the warsong were many things but not weak or a real weakened clan because they were until the almost end of the 2. War still on draenor and only later entered azeroth. Powerfull warrior clan, thats are the warsong and not a weakened pathetic clan
Damn Thrall for sending us away! He chooses to use his greatest warriors for manual labor? He’ll be lost without me.
They weren’t weak, but that conflict was a decent enough example of the NEs power on a micro level. Small group vs small group conflict. It shows that the NEs are “Extremely Formidable, but not Overwhelming”. Because as NE players themselves constantly reinforce, the NEs themselves were also extremely well trained warriors too. And the NEs caught the Orcs unaware, on friendly terrain, and their numbers (as far as we know) were not inferior to the Orcs at least.
This is such an absurd thing to say after Shadowlands and BfA.
After Night Elves have been utterly defeated, had their lands and home taken away, lost at every opportunity and also had their people killed and souls destroyed to ensure that they never make it out of this misery.
And to top it all off, Elune has been neutered too.
The entire race is essentially gone from the story unless something big happens, and you somehow still think the race has something going for it. They’re just above the void elves at this point. Is this supposed to be a troll comment?
The orcs were not an small grp
Your lack of self-awareness is hilarious.
Okay so a handful of Night Elves beat a giant army of the best Orc warriors. Got it.
It works in single player.
It’s not sustainable in an MMO, so depowered is plain necessity.
So, Baal, you believe a Horde-adjacent First One would (at least somewhat) offset Elune as a Night Elf-centric First One?
Please don’t misunderstand my skepticism - if Elune remains a First One I agree with your suggestion 100%. My concern is that it becomes an odd power struggle where those “adjacent” to the Night Elves and whomever are hoping for the power from Elune and/or An’she. I like Mimron being akin to a patron saint of Gnomes and I would be happier if all races had some sort of representation of that kind.
I do, however, see your point that we already have a good amount of representation in that “tier” that is entirely Alliance-centric. Ideally it would be equaled out in some way, but short of finding out 90% of the Light and Life are Horde fans, it’s not happening.
I don’t like that any particular race has a direct line to the highest tier of beings. I would like all races to have access to the same/similar level of deified power. I don’t know that I can really advocate for a particular solution because I don’t think any options sound like the right answer to me (yet). But you have definitely shown me an aspect (the roles already solidified within pantheons) that I hadn’t considered.
Yes, because the reality is that Blizzard seems categorically unwilling to have any Pantheon Member™ resemble any Horde race or be based on any themes common to Horde races (read: Non-Western cultural themes).
So as of right now:
An’she could:
So yes, Mimiron is the direct “Father of Gnomes”, but Mimiron is an inventor because he was empowered by Norgannon, and Norgannon could’ve been attributed to An’she as a smith/inventor of the First Ones.
The same way the Primus is the direct “Father/Grandfather of the Undead”, but a First One would’ve created him too.
By necessity, each Pantheon Member was, at one point, created by a First One. Eventually it should play out like a giant family tree.
Already Humans and Orcs are cousins: Humans are made from the Forge of Wills created by Archaedas created by Norgannon, and Orcs are offspring of Grond created by Aggramar. Norgannon and Aggramar are “brothers”.
So, each race would be tied to one Pantheon Member and one or two First Ones.
Because it is a family tree. First Ones create the Pantheons, Pantheons create the Player Races.
That’s the problem: it’s too late.
They chose to make all the Titans except Aggramar heavily tied to the Alliance. They chose to make all the Eternal Ones except the Primus tied to the Alliance.
There’s no way the Horde races are going to be “majority” represented in any of the remaining Pantheons of Light and Life and Chaos and Shadow. Our chance was the Death Pantheon, and Blizzard chose to go with “recolored Humans + Alliance themes ie Western European themes”.
And now Elune is confirmed revealed to be part of some other Pantheon.
This sucks.
Sure they can, they develop a strong relationship, and call each siblings in a non-literal way. Making Elune a Life-deity, despite her sway over Void/Life/Arcane/Light seems like an inconsistency that not even Blizzard could ignore. It just seems too egregious; Life-deities only use Life, just as the Jailer only knows Death magic.
Maybe I’m just not jaded enough yet and I’ll get there eventually?
Problem is 9.1 is already retcon’ing 9.0 (The Curator writes the Curator’s Addendum that retcons the Stonewright’s story), so they’re definitely flailing and playing fast and loose.
Fast and loose, sounds pretty blizzard to me lol.
Then I wouldn’t be too shocked if they retcon their way back into Elune being a First One. I guess I’m just not swayed with something like the WQ tossing out a casual line about fmailial relationship, especially when Blizzard has such a long track record of giving out weird and inconsistent Elune breadcrumbs (like the Elune world pillar weirdly among titan artifacts, Elunaria weirdly being a world of Eonar, etc.).
Elune gets so many weird little one-off tidbits of lore that have always been pretty inconsistent. As such, I shrug off the smaller inconsistencies: it’s pretty par for the course with her lore. I’ll gladly eat crow if I’m wrong, but my money is still on First One.
Well Elunaria isn’t of Eonar, but a world Eonar hid on.
Well wasn’t confirmed either way, common speculation is Eonar was the World Soul of Elunaria, and the reason why she was able to hide on it was probably tied to Elune.
So a planet that worshipped/was touched by Elune produced Eonar.
Establishing a Mother-Daughter relationship of a sort.
Makes sense of Elune shed a tear for her daughter, Eonar; just like right now it would make sense of Tyrande (also a mother) possessed by Elune sheds a tear for another daughter, Winter Queen.
So I’m thinking that maybe from now whenever Goblins try to use Shredders that buzz saw blades they swing around actually come unhooked and slice through like… four or five random Horde soldiers minimum and actively hinder the Horde’s chances of winning battles. Since the only real time we’ve seen Goblin engineering get in the way of them winning is the one time Gallywix burned through all his fuel, which isn’t even a malfunction of the machine.
Also any explosives they have should probably detonate to early for them to launch them properly. Since we’re told their inventions explode constantly due to them cutting corners but we never see that when it would actually matter either.
Their Zepplins should probably be faulty too for good measure. Maybe the patched up leather balloons are prone to random rips and tears while over jagged mountains or deep open waters.
Literally the first time I’ve heard of this. Eonar could have met Elune while ordering worlds.
You clearly do not watch any Lore speculation content creators nor participate in Lore speculation discords.
An insinuating scream.
So it must be a night elf fantasy? Brainless, ossified elders, godlessly lagging behind EVERYTHING in EVERYTHING. Their technologies are outdated ten thousand years ago, their stealth skills are outdated for seven thousand years, and their tactics of warfare cannot be applied even to the enemy against whom they were developed, for “it’s been ten thousand years, the Legion has become mechanical long ago”?
Pitiful scum scurrying through the cities of people and dreaming of their former greatness. Right?
Shall we make a deal? The orcs will destroy themselves on their own. They finally realized that they were weak-willed bloodthirsty monsters. And they were upset, right? So let them be true to their nature and destroy themselves in endless battles! No fantasy about a “noble savage”, a “misunderstood culture” and a “deceived people”! Admit the truth! And they will become garbage. Miserable units will survive, fighting in arenas to satisfy their thirst for blood. Yes.
No, I’m saying that the NE power fantasy some NEs demand (You absolutely among them) is not actually supported by the lore. And while the NEs are absurdly formidable, it was never portrayed as oppressive to the extent they just get to be the “Auto-Win Button”. They don’t just get to invalidate every other races Racial Strengths because they are expected to maintain their once immense military lead into perpetuity. But also do it despite their Racial Fantasy having such a heavy dose of “Returning to or Maintaining the Status Quo”, so actually adapting their military is antithetical in some ways to that maintenance of that power balance. Which means, the only other alternative to expect and enforce glass ceilings on competing PC races to maintain it.
And that does not excuse Blizz’s awful BfA, but it also doesn’t mean the NEs get to be some infallible Mary Sue Race. That is just better than everyone else at everything by default. And even though the members of the race itself does not act in response to that innate superiority, its pretty clear that some of their fans do.