I think the main takeaway is just that there shouldn’t be an expectation for talent overhauls in these patches, it’s not something they actively want to address mid-expansion. Hoping that it happens is largely setting yourself up for disappointment. I am speaking generally, as you already know this.
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do you have any link for that cause i’d like to see it
Wait… what’s so bad about ele performance wise atm that it needs dramatic attention?
Performance-wise, not much at the moment. I assume OP was looking for Enh changes.
I see plenty of ele related comments.
Enhance isn’t in need a dramatic performance increases either, honestly Shaman is in a great place, some might tweaks would be nice especially for Resto in 2s with other healers having greater ST throughput/mobility/stun usable defensives, but even still it’s not in any desperate need of attention and i would be perfectly okay with no changes bc i understand being a middle tier healer doesn’t mean i’m not viable.
For reference. Every single shaman spec has representation on leaderboards for all 3 content types in the upper tier of performance.
Some representation sure, because people like them and play them.
But there’s what I would called a Hatred towards the class, that stops most people that play Shaman from engaging in m+, raid, and even pvp content, because they’re not Meta and “don’t bring anything to the table”.
There are a lot of people that completely dismiss Windfury, even though it’s as Strong as Chaos Brand or Mystic Touch for a melee party. There are a lot of people that think Shaman are bad unless they’re Resto. There are a lot of people that will never group up with an Enhancement unless that absolutely have no choice.
The thing is, we’re not bad, at all… We’re actually one of the strongest melee in SL currently, and our single target burst is insane! We’re great for PvP as long as we have help with survivability, we’re great in raid content as long as we get full uptime on the boss and aren’t targeted with mechanics (esp soak mechanics), and we’re great in m+, whether AoE or Single target - we just can’t compete with the likes of Mage or Druid for AoE because we’re AoE capped, but nor can anyone else.
The problem is, our survivabilty is trash and we don’t really bring any utilities to groups, outside of Wind rush totem (that we don’t take because it hurts our own survivability and/or damage output).
If we weren’t so squishy, had some form of DR cooldown besides Astral Shift, perhaps an immunity, we’d probably be taken over many specs that are currently favored even though we already do more damage than them.
Giving us a % damage increase wouldn’t hurt either, we’re far from OP currently, but a damage boost alone will not be sufficient to remove the disdain that people have for us. Removing lust from Mage and Hunters would help a little, but you only need 1 Shaman (resto) for Lust, so we need more than that. We need spec based utilities that people WANT to have in their groups.
They could for instance, change Windfury so that it’s raid wide, or so that it affects ‘physical’ attacks rather than ‘melee’ attacks, so that it applies to hunters as well. Or it could just be a lot stronger.
They could add Stormfury or something similar to Elemental as a group/raid wide buff.
There’s a bunch of things that they could do, but we can’t expect that any of them will happen, because such a small percentage of the player base mains Shaman that Blizzard have us on low priority, it’s not profitable for them to change us.
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Shamans have tones of utility. Community perception isn’t an issue for blizzard to concern themselves with outside of making sure shaman stays strong long enough for it to be broken. Our survivability is limited agreeably but that’s a common issue for hybrid classes. It’s going to require sacrifice to get that improved.
Yes, but we don’t have “useful” utility in a raid setting.
We don’t have a soak, our speed increase is a talent that removes survivability and/or dps uptime, and is not as good as the Druid version that’s not talented, affects all the raid instead of a target area.
We have healing stream totem, but this is not really particularly powerful and even if you have it up 100% of the time, our healing during a raid encounter will still be lower than that of a mage… a MAGE.
We have tremor totem, but it’s on the GCD and has a VERY short duration, and cannot be used while stunned or feared. So you have to use it basically exactly 2 seconds before a fear goes out, and most fears are either instant or on a 1 sec cast. So it’s essentially useless.
Earthbind is positional, and has no use in raid aside from perhaps on Sun King, but there are better slows in other classes.
Yes, we have a lot of utility, but nobody cares about it or finds it useful in a raid setting, and if you try to argue with someone that we’re worth taking to raid because of our utility, they’ll laugh at you - trust me, i’ve had it happen, multiple times.
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Hex/purge/dispel/best interrupt in the game/self Rez/mobility
Back up raid tank? For those 10-15 second times when you need one? And it can 100% pull a group through. Can talent into earth shield and ele gets a mini VE cd they can talent.
Most classes utility in raid is nullified, some other classes it’s pretty much useless until raid (WL sum for example). All specs of shaman are bringing a lot to all forms of content atm. Pure dps specs will always bring a little more utility bc it’s literally the only thing that separates them from other pure dps classes. Mages cannot off heal the tank or heal themselves to help push through a huge burst of damage, their healing done is only damage smoothing, which we also have with ES/healing totem/astral shift.
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I agree with all of this, but this is not community consensus. Nobody really cares about any of this, or will take us because of these utilities.
They prefer big group DR cooldowns, soak cooldowns, battle res’, uncapped AoE.
We don’t have any of that.
The problem Blizzard has, is that because we ARE good, we ARE viable, and we DO have a lot of utility, giving us enough that people will actually want us, will likely make us too good.
They need to change community perception of Shaman, and i’m not sure how they do that.
I forgot wf totem too.
I don’t think it’s blizzards job to concern themselves with meta projections made by mid level undereducated players. No offense to what your saying, but people being too dense to recognize that shaman is doing perfectly fine isn’t their problem. For the past few years people have watched tier lists like they are even remotely factual. Rather than based on a group comp meta that requires certain builds and the exact same team every time.
I could agree with some kind of defensive assistance, but their utility is acceptable given everything else they are capable of. I also recognize that adding any defensive capability to shaman would be tough to balance, it’s already near impossible to kill a good turbo team in 3s bc enhancement doesn’t die unless you shut down it’s healer, and the enhancement shaman itself, instead most times, a win condition against turbo only shows up once the warrior makes a mistake, and lines his healer or some other oops, then you have to shut down both the healer and the enhancement. Enhancement burst off healing is honestly incredible atm. Which makes giving them defensives tough to balance.
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Hex/purge/dispel/best interrupt in the game/self Rez/mobility
Blockquote
Self Rez on a 30 minute timer… lol a soulbind beats that… Ankh should be on a 10 min 15 min at most base coolddown to compare with other battle rezzes, or be able to be used as a brez for otheres
It should also reset with boss wipes the same as literally every other buff/debuff for cheat death and battle res. It should ideally be on a 4 minute cooldown the same as the DK cheat death, or at worst 8 minutes, the same as the DH one. 30 minutes is rediculous, especially considering that if you die in a raid, chances are it’s because you’re in something bad… using recinarnation to get up again, unless it gives you 100% hp or an absorb shield is in many times going to result in your immediate death, wasting a 30 minute cooldown.
If it was reset on wipe/kill of a boss, was on a 4-8m cd, we could actually use it as a solo soak/immune, as it should be.
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totally agree there… or even reset on boss wipes in raids, 15-20 min CD in mythics to be lowered by teh conduit i’d take.
And i dont even wanna get started on how BL was stolen from us Mages lol
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They have flat out said that they are doing talent revamp for 9.1 updating, removing, useless talents and replacing with better options.
This was from Blizzcon online a few months ago. The word they used was “refreshed”
and look at what was released for non-shaman classes yesterday. Mistweaver monks, Locks, Mages all god CONSIDERABLE overhauls to their talents.
you are both uninformed on what information was released months ago, and oblivious to the notes released yesterday.
Its more that there are just dead and useless talents that should either just be removed and replaced or extremely buffed to make them meaningful to gameplay. (and this has been stated flat out was blizzards intent with 9.1, so not seeing it happen is a huge disappointment)
We dont so much need buffs to make us stronger, but a talent like Elemental Attunement or Control of Lava or Travelling Storms, or Spectral Recovery, or Purifying Waters, or Static Discharge, or Earthen Rage, or Liquid Magma Totem, or Wind Rush Totem REALLY are so underwhelming that if blizzzards stated intent is to revamp dead talents, THERE IS A LARGE AMOUNT OF WORK TO BE DONE FOR ELEMENTAL
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Mistweaver got NO talent changes at all… They got PvP changes:
Monk
- Mistweaver
- New PvP Talent: Peaceweaver.
- New PvP Talent: Dematerialize.
- New PvP Talent: Thunderous Tea.
- Counteract Magic (PvP Talent) has been redesigned – Each hostile Magic effect removed from a target increases the healing they receive from you by 2% for 10 seconds, stacking up to 10 times.
- Refreshing Breeze (PvP Talent) has been redesigned – Healing done by Soothing Mist increases the healing of the next Expel Harm on the target during the channel, and causes it to dispel 1 Magic, Poison, or Disease effect.
- Eminence (PvP Talent) has been redesigned – Transcendence: Transfer can now be cast while stunned and its cooldown is decreased by 15 seconds if it is cast while not stunned.
- Surging Mist (PvP Talent) has been removed.
Warlock got some tuning changes, numbers, percentages. They did not get any overhauls in their talents. Not a single talent was actually changed functionally.
Warlock
- Dark Pact’s (Talent) additional absorb shield has been increased by 216%.
- Destruction
- Chaos Bolt damage increased by 10%.
- Affliction
- Malefic Rapture damage reduced by 18%.
- Agony damage increased by 20%.
- Shadow Embrace now lasts 16 seconds (was 12 seconds) and can now only be applied to 1 target at a time.
- Focused Malignancy (Conduit) effectiveness reduced by 53%.
- Sacrolash’s Dark Strike (Runecarving Power) has been redesigned – Corruption damage is increased by 25% (was 15%), and each time Corruption deals damage, it extends the duration of all your Curses active on the target by 2 seconds (was Corrupted targets movement speed slowed by 50%).
Mages got some tuning changes, to reduce their damage output. This is FAR from considerable overhauls to their talents:
Mage
- Fire
- Flamestrike damage reduced by 10%.
- Flame Patch (Talent) damage reduced by 10%.
- Kindling (Talent) cooldown reduction for Combustion reduced to 1 second (was 1.5 seconds).
- Infernal Cascade (Conduit) Fire damage bonus reduced by 20%.
What in the world do you think they had changed?
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I think you’re referring to this quote?
PvP Honor Talents will undergo a refresh, revitalizing lesser used talents for more options to unleash your full potential.
Which has nothing to do with class talents. They have not stated that they’re doing a refresh or revamp of talents, unless you can find something that says otherwise?
Correct! that seems to be the exact quote where blizzard stated flat out they are revamping talents mid expansion.
if you want to limit it to
understood, thats fair.
HERE ARE ALL THE TALENT CHANGES FOR WARLOCK.
New PvP Talent: Shadow Rift. Conjure a Shadow Rift with an 10 yd radius at the target location lasting 2 sec. Any enemies within the zone when it expires are teleported to your Demonic Circle
Soul Shatter (PvP Talent) has been removed.
New PvP Talent: Fel Obelisk. Summon a Fel Obelisk with 5% of your maximum health. Empowers you and your minions within 40 yds, increasing attack speed by 20% and reducing the cast time of spells by 20% for 20 sec.
Call Fel Lord (PvP Talent) now deals 200% of the caster’s Spell Power per swing (was 5% of target’s maximum health). Cooldown of the ability increased to 2 minutes (was 1.5 minutes).
Singe Magic (PvP Talent) has been removed.
New PvP Talent: Bonds of Fel. Encircle enemies with Bonds of Fel, snaring them by 50% for 6 sec. If any target leaves the 8 yd radius, deals (460% of Spell power) Fire damage, split amongst all nearby enemies.
Focused Chaos (PvP Talent) has been removed.
AS WELL AS
Dark Pact’s (Talent) additional absorb shield has been increased by 216%.
Changing Revival to a charge-based system is not an overhaul.
Adding CJL to TFT is not an overhaul.
Dark Pact buff is not an overhaul.
Tuning of Fire Mage talents are not an overhaul.
I guess this is just another one of those threads where you jump the gun and call everyone an idiot. It looks like Faesobee already called you out enough, so I’ll leave it there.
If you’re talking about PvP Talents, you need to specify PvP Talents. Talents and PvP Talents are 2 entirely different things, and when people are talking about 9.1 changes and talent changes in general, they do NOT mean PvP Talents unless specifically calling that out.
It’s good that you’re pointing that out now, that you understand there is no refresh of the actual class talents, and that it’s just PvP talents, but this also proves that your initial statement was in fact wrong, or at the very least deceiving.
They’re not doing any major overhaul of class talents in 9.1, at least not that anyone knows of, and they’ve stated in the past that they don’t want to ‘mid expansion’ like they have in the past.
Overhauling PvP talents is an entirely different thing and this has not happened in a long time. This does not affect m+, raiding, world quests, torghast etc…
The purpose of changing PvP talents is to balance PvP combat without impacting PvE content, and that’s perfectly fine.