I would say that the nerf takes us from top 25% to middle of the pack. But the issue is we don’t have any other specs to rely on. Meanwhile some classes have multiple specs in the top 25% depending on the content.
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It doesn’t seem realistic at all to me to be sustaining 10k DPS on 5 targets “indefinitely”, as he claimed, at his level of gear and skill with Kyrian. His raid performance is low, and the highest key he’s ever done is a 12 where trash just falls over, so where exactly is he getting those “indefinite” numbers from?
Normally I wouldn’t deep dive someone like that, but he’s very blatantly lying about numbers and then using said lie as justification for MM not being compensated for a heavy nerf. It’s really scummy behavior.
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That’s an easy answer, Ion. He doesn’t like Hunters because they slow down or prevent Rogues from OP ganking everyone. Heck, since Vanilla Ion hasn’t liked Hunters. Ion even came out and said it. Hunters take away Ion’s fun and makes things difficult for his Rogue. I think Ion needs some whine.
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Pro Job Bizzard, now MM has joined the viablity ranks of BM, SV, and demon lock. Can you just put out which classes the deves are playing so we don’t waste our time playing a spec or entire class that is relegated to solo world pve?
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I believe my Sim on 5 target is at 16k dps sustain. So him being Kyrian and a bit lower level being around 10k sustained dps is quite believable.
It’s quite unlikely that people in charge of the balancing are over-buffing the classes they play. But it’s quite likely that they follow feedback from less experienced players.
Hunter being a bit easier to play means it’s going to shine at low skill level compared to other classes. The issues is that when compared to other specs at higher skill level the reality is quite different.
For example BM hunter is not receiving any buffs so far. The spec is top half in normal raid but is dead last in mythic raid. The numbers of BM are in average roughly 15% lower than the ones of the top 5 specs in mythic raid. Which could easily lead to believe that the balancing team is not balancing around higher skill level. Feels bad man
I really don’t think it is. He has absolutely nothing to back up those numbers. Now, consider his other post on the topic:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/905-wild-spirits-nerf/884624/2
Does this strike you as someone arguing in good faith, or someone with an agenda to push?
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I didn’t check the guy, and I don’t care about it. 10k sustained is easily doable and even if he personally can’t do it, it doesn’t really matter. Let’s not turn the thread as a hate thread because the guy talked a bit bigger than he is.
On the other hand, yeah he’s pretty clueless about how hunter are reliant on their covenant abilities to stay relevant.
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The guy is saying “X is fine because I can do Y”, and he’s very clearly lying about Y. That’s really all there is to it, there’s no need to white knight for him.
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All I’m saying is that even if he cannot do it himself, doing the 10k sustained is easily doable by a lot of MM players. So his point is still valid on that.
Bashing on someone is not going to help the devs reading this forum post (if there is any) understand our point. Being that the nerf of Serpent Sting is going to kill MM and since no other hunter specs are viable it will kill hunter as a whole.
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No, his point isn’t valid. Here, just for fun, let’s read his post again:
He’s citing his own alleged performance as a reason for why MM will be fine, and specifically mentions the ilevel in which he’s making that claim. He then goes on to claim that even with the complete removal of our covenant abilities, that we’d be fine.
If you’d prefer to get back to the topic at hand, I’d recommend not running damage control for this clown.
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Is point is that Kyrian hunter can still do 10k sustained DPS, which is true (even if he is over estimating his own dps). And he believe that because Kyrian is OK, MM will still be fine. For his level of play I’m sure Kyrian hunter is fine.
Now on the second point which is hunter isn’t reliant on covenant abilities. As I said earlier, he’s pretty clueless about how the spec works.
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They hit BM with this exact same nerf like 2-3 months ago. It was the Barbed Shot & Animal Companion interaction with Wild Spirits. MM got to keep the bug for an extra 3 months because it’s FOTM and more people play MM. Enjoy the nerf. Sorry, not sorry. 
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Simply not true.
But the rest of your post is sound.
All classes Sims in T26 gear with 2 conduit and 1 legendary :
https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T26_Raid.html
It’s not fully up to date but we can see frost mage on top of single target damage. Let’s take a random single target fight. Let’s say Hungering Destroyer 95+ percentile :
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#boss=2383&dataset=95
Frost mage is nowhere to be found. Frost DK whic his one of the highest ST damage based on the SimC is dead last. I’ll pass on the other details.
Simming your character gives you a general idea of the potential of DPS but based on the movement required, the potential stop DPS, the add spawn frequency, execute targets and a lot more factors, the actual damage you will do will fluctuate from one encounter to another.
You can sim your character on 1 to X targets. But the result you will get will be accurate on target dummy fights.
To be specific about hunters, let’s say the simulation makes you lose 5% dps due to the Wild Spirits nerf.
In reality with movement and mechanics the Wild Spirits is a bigger part of your dps than on the sim as you’re choosing to use cooldown when you know you won’t get targeted by a mechanic. So instead of losing 5% dps as your sim told you, you will end up losing a bigger amount.
A lot of players are going into sims blindly and thinking the number coming out of it are always accurate. Reality is often quite far from it.
Unless we change legendary and/or playstyle during our trueshot, the best way to “sim” the nerf is to go through your logs and take 30% damage from your Wild Spirits away.
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Unblinking Vigil. And I stand by what I said, remove covenant abilities from hunters and we’re still middle of the pack in all content, and very strong in M+. I would much prefer survivability buffs for pvp then make a fuss over the cheesiest covenant ability in the game. Wild Spirits needs to go and get deleted from the game entirely, along with convoke. You’re right that my raid performance is poor, but I just think hunters will be fine. The hunters in my guild absolutely shrek the charts (part of the reason I don’t raid 
)
Okay, let’s test that theory and see if you’re still blatantly lying and pushing an agenda.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#metric=dps&dataset=95&class=DPS&boss=2398
Here we see MM is currently #10 in 95th percentile M Shriekwing parses. This is firmly middle of the pack.
A 95th percentile parse on M Shriekwing for MM is about 4975 DPS, here’s three examples: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/z6XFT9QNPYWGc8dw#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=18
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QbRCX4kYwJtGyfpW#fight=2&type=damage-done&source=16
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/znx2kfgcZMYWp6V1#fight=3&type=damage-done&source=18
On average, Wild Spirits is responsible for a little over 11% of their damage, or ~550 DPS. Removing WS gets us 4425 DPS. Where do you think that leaves MM?
It puts us right there with Arcane in the bottom 5.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/34xmgP8HrV2YCZy9#fight=2&type=damage-done&source=19
BM and SV, even being propped up by Wild Spirits, are already sitting in the bottom 5, so every Hunter spec is now on the bottom of the charts, and for BM and SV, that’s with Wild Spirits intact. Yet there you are sitting here and claiming that Hunters as a whole would be “fine” without any covenant abilities.
Just stop.
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I don’t believe you Panhandle. If you did that your io would be a lot higher and you are only 2/10 heroic. Stop lying
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Trash pull, lmao. Like that matters
I’d say Bellegar is correct on his assessment. The GM of Limit also said wild spirits is the only thing that is making hunters a real class at the moment.
And personally the m+ groups that I run with call my cd “wild spirits”, nobody says trueshot. That is to say, wild spirits is the strongest cd hunters have despite not being baseline in our spec.
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The example you took is pure single target. We get nerf even harder on aoe.
Blizz is murdering a spec and since we don’t have other playable specs the entire class is dying with that nerf.
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