I am doing some deep exploratory investigations into FF and ESO as my new home. Class design in other MMOs seem to be front and center better than WoW. WoW has to treat class design as a priority again to turn the tide.
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Eso is a really good game too, ff 14 just really isn’t my cup of tea, the lack of races kinda sucks…but the gameplay isn’t too bad
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It’s entirely possible that FFXIV has surpassed WoW at this point.
key word: possible
We actually have 0 idea how many subs WoW has.
Just like we have 0 idea how many subs FFXIV has.
14 million is total accounts created, as Bluster pointed out. The terminology they use is really awkward in that regard, but the only data we ACTUALLY have on FFXIV subs is way back in like 2015 or so in a report stating that a combination of 3 of Square Enix’s titles had reached a [combined] 1 million subs.
We know FFXIV has grown since then, but we have 0 idea how much, just like we have 0 idea how low WoW has fallen.
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Yes - the core of classes needs to be finalized. That doesn’t mean you can’t tune some numbers here but we have had multiple complete and utter overhauls every expansion.
Everyone else seems to understand what I am saying, besides you.
Tell me - when was the last time ESO classes got overhauled? When was the last time FF14 overhauled a class? (Excluding the paladin.) When was last Guild Wars 2 overhauled a class?
None of them. Not a single one. Overhauling core class features expansions has and will always drive away players.
Adding in a new ability here and there - tuning some damage numbers is not the same thing as overhauling.
I don’t know how you’re simply not getting it but everyone else is so I can only take it as you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing and that’s not going to entertain me for long.
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sunday was yesterday sir.
You literally ignored the example I gave (which wasn’t Paladin) in my earlier post.
I don’t know about other classes, but I think BLM has some sort of resource thing now? BRD changed like twice, and yes, PLD does in fact count. They’re also revamping DRK in the upcoming xpack. Maybe there’s more. Maybe there’s not. Idk.
The fact that PLD doesn’t count to you basically just tells me “It doesn’t count as a change if people like it”.
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Sorry that I noticed a problem with WoW that many other people have pointed out - including major youtube content creators. Then looked at other games that do this in the same genre and couldn’t find a single one that does this.
I’m sorry, I want more resources spent creating good content instead of wasting resources on overhauling classes every time they drop an expansion.
Actually, no. I’m not sorry. I want Blizzard to focus on content and stop focusing on classes. Get them done, get them completed, listen to community feedback, and leave them hell be and focus on the rest of the game.
Get bent.
Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to.
I already stated the Paladin was overhauled. Again - with community feedback and the general public was happy about the change.
I also know the Dark Knight needs some heft work - but here’s the thing. FF14 actually fixes the classes because the classes are actually broken and don’t function. I know that Dark Knight is basically a meme within the entire community.
Blizzard literally just throws the bath water out with the tub every expansion and starts all over.
You can’t really compare ff14 with WoW because Ff14 doesn’t have a history of doing it for 4 expansions in a row.
And ff14 actually listens to community feedback about overhauling their classes.
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Good content speaks for itself and will be done over and over again. This dev team thinks that learning your class over and over again somehow replaces good content , it doesn’t.
If you make classes fun to play, people can do content as much as possible. But having bad classes and bad content of a repetitive nature is nothing but a fools errand on a hamster wheel.
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FWIW, there’s no way in hell the same team that does class design and tuning designs questing and endgame content systems. Different teams do different things. I can accept that some people would rather have classes that don’t change, but don’t pretend having a team working on classes every expansion is taking away from the content the game offers.
Because it’s only had 2 expansions.
And it has significantly fewer classes.
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It most certainly does. Designing classes and overhauling core features isn’t as easy and having to balance the new spec against 35 others isn’t exactly easy either. They do have to spend a lot of time getting things to balance and work.
Please don’t cherry pick things out of my response.
Again, you can’t compare it. They’re fixing things that are actually broken compare to Blizzard just making changes for the sake of making changes.
They tried…oh man did they try to make arena an e-sport in bc and beyond. But seeing the same meta comps vrs the same meta comps with copious amounts of pillar…errrr lovin’. Its not fun to watch and not fun to play. The MDI is just as bad since it’s going to be people skipping trash and aoeing stuff down. That’s even less fun to watch.
Classes need to be overhauled again this xpack. With abilities added. If that’ll happen i dunno… Classes being boring is almost always the top complaint about bfa. They pruned far, far too hard after legion.
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They counted all accounts free and inactive as well. If we’re going that route, wow has what was it over 100million or so
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Some classes NEED to be changed next expansion though. A lot of people complain their class is no longer fun to play. I’ve hated my protection warrior ever since Legion for example. I’d like Blizzard to remove Ignore Pain (or make it a talent) and revert the class to what it was in Mists of Pandaria, which Shield Barrier and a very strong Defensive Stance. (I think it was 25% damage reduction!)
Square-Enix only revamps classes that are clunky and universally unliked, it’s not something they systematically do every expansion for every class. Machinist and Dark Knight for example just aren’t fun to play, so they are giving them a full revamp next expansion.
On the other hand, while White Mage is the weakest healer, people LOVE playing them and they are by far the most played healer, so it’s very unlikely they will get a full revamp, instead Square-Enix will probably let their new spells fix them and maybe alter a few lower-level spells as well.
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Yes - they need to open up the gates of real discussion for 9.0 for the classes and spend time working with the community to get things back to a good state and when 10.0 drops. Only add - never take away. You can always restrict the number of spells or talents a class has through UI - so you can officially add in 1000 spells or talents but can only have a set amount of them.
Exactly, trying to compare fixing what’s legitimately broken vs changing it for changes sake.
FF has never posted sub count ever.
A few years ago they did talk about having 2 million accounts created.
You know, like WoW had ovee 100 million accounts created when they posted it in MoP.
That’s a terrible idea, not only can this community not agree on anything, but players rarely ever have the games overall health in mind when making suggestions for class design. (As is evident by your posts)
Always adding and never removing is what caused the ability bloat problems pre-mist. Yes that was a problem, databases have their limits and many classes had redundant abilities while at the same time having abilities that meant some classes could be left out.
The balance that most people seem to want really isn’t balance, nor would that kind of ‘balance’ be good for the game.
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I don’t think that is a bad idea.
A big reason why Legion class design improved over time was class feedback from players. A lot of the artifact talents that came in mid legion were often player inspired traits (eg Loaded Dice) that the devs put into the game.
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And when they made those changes other players complained about class design. No matter what Blizzard does or which feedback they use people are going to QQ about it.
That isn’t true.
Players also complained about pruning in Legion and portion of pruning were undone in Legion.
Even player feedback led to an entire spec being reworked mid expansion of Legion (eg Sub Rogue).
Class design has been bad ever since they started pruning in WoD. So, yes players have every right to keep complaining until things improve in a better direction.
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