“8 seconds less travel time to one single set of objectives” apparently equals “staggering map imbalance”.
Huh.
If eight seconds is costing you the game every time, i assure you its a you problem, and not a map issue. And lets not even get started on how absurdly tilted the map is in Alliance favor.
On second thought, lets do it. I haven’t posted it in a while, so maybe you fools need a refresher:
Captains:
Horde has to ride PAST Bal’s fort, through a Lieutenant and about eight NPCs to get to Bal.
Alliance can ride straight into Galv’s room. Murp is only there if you delay going to Galv, he starts at TP and takes forever to get to Galv’s door. There are no additional NPCs to worry about agroing other than maybe some wolves depending on where you catch them on your pat.
Ally Bunkers v. Horde Towers (general):
-Ally Bunkers are harder to get into (in all cases except DBS, Horde have to ride PAST the bunker) compared to Horde Towers.
-Ally Archers have about 30-40% more range, and at any given time, 2-3 archers can range on you as you approach.
-Ally Archers have a clear shot on the flag. Horde Archers not only cannot shoot the flag, they de-aggro when you go into the flag room.
-Ally Archers will disobey aggro (even taunts) to shoot someone capping the flag, even if they are being actively tanked by an honest-to-god tank. Horde Archers may exhibit this behaviour, but since none can hit a flag capper, we’ll never know.
-Every Ally bunker has an elite NPC in the lower part of the bunker that you will aggro unless you hug the exact right spot going in. Some have up to three. Horde towers have none. All “equivalent” NPCs are on patrol routes near the tower and can be avoided completely.
-Three of the four Horde Towers, you can cap without taking fire from the archers at all. IBT can be capped by riding around behind Galv, which puts you “behind” the tower where there are no Archers; you can run up to the base, run around to the entrance, run up to the top, run around the “back”, take a single hit from the ONE archer pointed towards IBGY, and into the flag room. The Frostwolf Towers, you can ride around the walls and under buildings which prevent the archers from ever getting LoS. Again, running up, you take a single hit from one archer, and then into the flag room. Only Tower Point avoids this, as you cant approach it from a direction without archers unless you ride far out against the western wall, then double back once you leave aggro range.
- Horde towers are also easier for agressors to defend because of the closed room. Cap-defenders cant be hit from outside. The same is not true of Ally bunkers.
IBT vs SHB:
- IBT 's archers are singularly useless; three of them point towards Galv, and only one points towards the hill/lower path up near IBGY. This lower path also allows you to LoS the sole archer that can hit you until you’re almost past the tower. SHBs archers can and will pepper you if you are anywhere near SHB, able to hit almost the middle of the Field of Strive. If you approach from the South at all, three archers will be on you. There’s also an LT that is right near the entrance (which is where he starts and his pat keeps him close, its easy to accidentally aggro him or for Allies to drag him into you), there’s an elite NPC in the bottom…
- IBT is slightly closer to IBGY than SHB is to SHGY, but its marginal (about 2 seconds at best; and its a lot harder for Horde re-cappers to get into IBT than it is for Ally reinforcements to get into SHB).
IB “choke” vs SHGY choke:
There isn’t a SHGY choke. The equivalent choke is Icewing Bunker. This is reversed in the Horde territory, where IBGY has a “choke” (though it is about 3x wider than IWBs choke and not full of NPCs) but Tower Point is just parked in the middle of an essentially open field.
IBGY vs SHGY:
Alliance like to say that they are “Trapped” in the rez area, like this is an issue if theyre properly defending. This isnt. If you’re losing the GY because you’re not properly defending it, being “Trapped” within range of the flag (yeah, you spawn literally ONE STEP from being in range as a hunter, two whole steps as most other range) isn’t going to save you anyway. And if you “got away”, as you ilke to claim Horde can (not really, if the Ally has mages sitting on the GY, we dont get away)… where are you going to go, exactly? Its the same with Horde who “escape” IBGY. Where do they go, exactly?
Meanwhile, Horde spawn almost 50% further away, around a hill and out of LoS.
Choke v. Choke:
IB choke vs IWB choke.:
Iceblood “choke” is about 3x as wide as the IWB choke. There are no NPCs literring up the place, except occasionally Murp who pats through the area. If you hug the west wall, you can run right past, avoid TP entirely, and then hit the open space below TP and pretty much lose any pursuit because its a huge field. Meanwhile, IWB choke is so narrow a single mage can freeze an entire raid… and there’s 2 elite pats, a pair of ram pairs, and a pair of birds that are almost alway right in the middle of the choke. The rams can and will knock you off the cliffs and to your death.
IWB: The bunker’s archers can range to about 4 yards away from SHGY flag, allowing Alliance ranged to stand under their cone of fire, and only be ~6 yards away from the SHGY flag (well within range). If any melee charge them, the Archers will turn them into pincushions. The Horde has NOTHING like this. You know what covers defenders at IBGY? Literally nothing.
Moving South/North:
After you clear the respective chokes, the two sides become even more tilted!
Going south, the entire map opens back up into a huge open field with no terrain hazards and virtually no NPCs of any kind to threaten you. You can ride so far around FWGY that people defending it cant even see you, and ride straight into FWK (well get to that in a minute). You can avoid being hit by TPs archers entirely by sticking to the east or west wall, and come back and cap it whenever you like, beause there are no archers covering the approach from the south.
Moving north, you’re forced into one of two paths: A narrow road with a cliff on one side that a single mage can hold against an entire raid, which funnels you into a blind-turn canyon where you can be frozen and AoEd into oblivion… or the path through a valley full of terrain hazards (lake you can fall into) hostile NPCs (Rams, which are 200% better than wolves because of that stupid knockback, and Harpies), and then funneled into a narrow canyon under the bridge, which also exposes you to being easily seen by any defenders at Stormpike, who are waiting for you at the top of the hill (if they didnt send a small group to freeze/AoE you in the narrow canyon under the bridge).
Allies spawn within two steps of being in range of the SP flag… but FWGY (which is approachable from literally any direction, being out in the wide open field) you spawn almost 50% further away.
Keep v. Keep:
Stormpike:
The Bridge is narrow, and people can easily fall off if they get confused (or recover from a CC facing the wrong way). DBN can range out to about the middle of the bridge with THREE archers, and there are 3 NPCs at the keep side of the bridge that you MUST engage (2 of which are elite). The entire time, DBN archers are peppering you. As soon as you hit the bse of the bridge, DBS can also range on you, but only with two archers. Thats OK though, DBS can actually HIT THE AID STATION FLAG, so there’s that. Well get to that.
After you get into the keep, both bunkers can hit the entire area, and Dun Baldar South can range on the Aid Station flag with 3 archers. THere are also close to 40 NPCs, about 1/3 of which are elite and can easily 3-4 shot a DPS, peppered around the area that will aggro if you get anywhere near them, and will aggro if a friendly Ally player is CCed into them, or runs into them while being attacked (or even with Just DoTs on them).
Frostwolf Keep:
The lower bailey has only 12 NPCs in it (IF the Primalist is there). Only two of them are elite, and you can avoid ALL of them. The only one anywhere near the gate can be avoided by simply turning right at the entrance. The Frostwolf towers cannot range on the lower bailey at all. There are also three spots where you can simply ride over the wall
The bridge “equivalent” in FWK - the tower room leading up to the upper bailey - actually PROTECTS the aggressors as it prevents the FW towers from hitting them due to LoS, meaning they are exposed for about 15 yards at best as they ride up to the gate.
It can also be TOTALLY AVOIDED by simply riding around it, hugging its outer wall, and then you can avoid the “gate” of the upper bailey in the same way - both to the left and right, you can simply ride around to a hole in the wall. And the wall still prevents the archers in the FW Towers from getting LoS on you.
Once you’re actually in the upper bailey, once youre about 45 degrees pas the door of each tower (I.E. near Drek’s room entrance or the bridge going to the flag), the Archers also cant hit you - because they all point uselessly out towards the gate even though they cant hit most of that area due to LoS issues. Alliance can literally stand in the upper bailey and not be attacked at all.
There are a whopping total (not including the flag guards) of FOUR NPCs in the ENTIRE upper bailey. And you have to TRY to aggro them, theyre all up against a wall or in a hut. Only one of them is elite.
Cave v Cave:
The current excuse-du-jour of the Alliance, rather than taking responsibility for their own failings and the failings of their fellow Alliance players.
The current cave locations give Horde a whopping 8-ish second advantage getting to SHGY as compared to Allies coming down from their cave, and is about a 4 second advantage vs Alliance coming from SHGY to try to reinfroce IBGY.
Thats it. Thats the current excuse. Which can be entirely mitigated by using a forward defense (dont stand around like a cadet review on top of the IBGY flag, move your CC/snare capable ranged to the area just south of IBGY flag and poof, the Horde are now slowed and your reinforcements will arrive before they do. Its literally that hard.
Oh, and the location of your Cave gives you an advantage if you’re pressed - its substantially closer (almost a full 10 seconds) to Stormpike and Stormpike keep than the Horde cave is to FWK.
But, by all means, continue on with your excuses.
The problem is people. Your own faction is griefing you. Straight up. Thats not the Horde’s fault, just like it wasn’t the Horde’s fault that we adapted because of your cheating to a more aggressive, dominating meta.
You literally brought that on yourself.
What worked for us was pointing out and complaining about your faction engaging in mass cheating
Which you were. Its not even a discussion.
Horde aren’t cheating, and the map isn’t the reason you’re losing. The map is so absurdly tilted in the favor of Alliance it makes me gag if i think about it too long. Maybe… cowboy up.
And for the guy complaining about “OMG I HAD ONE WIN AND IT WAS LIKE AN HOUR AND A HALF HOW TERRIBLE” - too bad, so sad, so sorry. Not sorry. Thats what it takes for US to win, too, so get over it crybaby.
If you want to make threads complaining about your own faction members ghosting you and leeching and afking… i got your back. Thats 100% garbage and needs to be dealt with.
But be real about it. ITs not the map. It never was. Its a people problem.