What if you post nonstop about premades for weeks on end? I guess posting over and over and over is working for wins 
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Letās aim for weeks 6, 7, and 8 guys!
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You realize that would make things worse for you right? Not better. Itās not that you guys suddenly become pro gamers when you coordinate. Itās that you could premade, and we couldnāt.
If you face against 15 coordinated Horde youāll lose for sure, regardless of what your premade has.
- You guys cheating is not the same thing as us beating you soundly in a fair fight.
- Blizzard ignored us until you guys started screwing over your own faction. Watch, youāre doing the EXACT same thing right now by farming LTs and ditching people into honorless fill games. The same thing will happen, Blizzard will stop that as well.
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You mean 20 horde that rez at once in the cave. 20 horde that rez over and over to throw themselves like meat upon the alliance at IBGY for 5 mins. Mucho skillo
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This sounds suspiciously like the Horde are playing the game?
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def not 100% I had a loss on my shaman the other day
This is exactly what horde did regarding premades which were necessary to win due to staggering map imbalance.
Worked for yāall, so we are going to try our hand at it.
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Damn when did they move Vann to IBGY? I mustāve missed those patch notes.
Yeah i guess you being unable to easily win one particular spot in the BG is grounds for you to immediately give up. Totally understand now.
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Lol. Bull. Alliance won the majority of games in Vanilla and Alliance in other regions win regularly as well. Itās not the map, itās your lack of effort and skill.
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No they didnāt.
No they donāt.
Yes it is.
No itās not.
Seriously though. Keep pretending that playing horde inherently makes you better at WoW. Hell, you play horde and are so bad at WoW that you hide behind an alt so I canāt snipe your logs.
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Yes they did, yes they do, no itās not, and yes it is. See this isnāt difficult?
Also this isnāt an alt. Soā¦ no?
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I should literally save my response so I can re-paste it each time. Maybe youāre just having bad luck but Alliance have been winning games. Iāve been in them. Cap and hold SF or IBGY and work your way down. Itās amazing what happens when a faction actually does objectives. Stop blaming these changes and know that your side is already seeing success. This is coming from someone who spends most of his time in AV.
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Blizz has shown they have no clue to balance anything.
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Your welcome
Youāre right. Too bad blizzard baddies flagged you. Eat dirt, crybabies.
Yea they always do. The blizzard white knights are the most toxic people I think I have ever had to the pleasure of dealing with.
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Could you even imagine being an entry level customer service rep dealing with boomers not figuring out basic account options and getting this dudeās call? Completely out of your mind.
And are you really here complaining about losing straight up in 40vs40 pugs after Horde went 2 months of ~7 minute AV games going against exploiters that today remain unpunished? (until the meta switched and they had to face Horde in WSG, bunch of bad r13 helmets beaten into spawn camps LOL)
What are you a politician LOL?
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ā8 seconds less travel time to one single set of objectivesā apparently equals āstaggering map imbalanceā.
Huh.
If eight seconds is costing you the game every time, i assure you its a you problem, and not a map issue. And lets not even get started on how absurdly tilted the map is in Alliance favor.
On second thought, lets do it. I havenāt posted it in a while, so maybe you fools need a refresher:
Captains:
Horde has to ride PAST Balās fort, through a Lieutenant and about eight NPCs to get to Bal.
Alliance can ride straight into Galvās room. Murp is only there if you delay going to Galv, he starts at TP and takes forever to get to Galvās door. There are no additional NPCs to worry about agroing other than maybe some wolves depending on where you catch them on your pat.
Ally Bunkers v. Horde Towers (general):
-Ally Bunkers are harder to get into (in all cases except DBS, Horde have to ride PAST the bunker) compared to Horde Towers.
-Ally Archers have about 30-40% more range, and at any given time, 2-3 archers can range on you as you approach.
-Ally Archers have a clear shot on the flag. Horde Archers not only cannot shoot the flag, they de-aggro when you go into the flag room.
-Ally Archers will disobey aggro (even taunts) to shoot someone capping the flag, even if they are being actively tanked by an honest-to-god tank. Horde Archers may exhibit this behaviour, but since none can hit a flag capper, weāll never know.
-Every Ally bunker has an elite NPC in the lower part of the bunker that you will aggro unless you hug the exact right spot going in. Some have up to three. Horde towers have none. All āequivalentā NPCs are on patrol routes near the tower and can be avoided completely.
-Three of the four Horde Towers, you can cap without taking fire from the archers at all. IBT can be capped by riding around behind Galv, which puts you ābehindā the tower where there are no Archers; you can run up to the base, run around to the entrance, run up to the top, run around the ābackā, take a single hit from the ONE archer pointed towards IBGY, and into the flag room. The Frostwolf Towers, you can ride around the walls and under buildings which prevent the archers from ever getting LoS. Again, running up, you take a single hit from one archer, and then into the flag room. Only Tower Point avoids this, as you cant approach it from a direction without archers unless you ride far out against the western wall, then double back once you leave aggro range.
- Horde towers are also easier for agressors to defend because of the closed room. Cap-defenders cant be hit from outside. The same is not true of Ally bunkers.
IBT vs SHB:
- IBT 's archers are singularly useless; three of them point towards Galv, and only one points towards the hill/lower path up near IBGY. This lower path also allows you to LoS the sole archer that can hit you until youāre almost past the tower. SHBs archers can and will pepper you if you are anywhere near SHB, able to hit almost the middle of the Field of Strive. If you approach from the South at all, three archers will be on you. Thereās also an LT that is right near the entrance (which is where he starts and his pat keeps him close, its easy to accidentally aggro him or for Allies to drag him into you), thereās an elite NPC in the bottomā¦
- IBT is slightly closer to IBGY than SHB is to SHGY, but its marginal (about 2 seconds at best; and its a lot harder for Horde re-cappers to get into IBT than it is for Ally reinforcements to get into SHB).
IB āchokeā vs SHGY choke:
There isnāt a SHGY choke. The equivalent choke is Icewing Bunker. This is reversed in the Horde territory, where IBGY has a āchokeā (though it is about 3x wider than IWBs choke and not full of NPCs) but Tower Point is just parked in the middle of an essentially open field.
IBGY vs SHGY:
Alliance like to say that they are āTrappedā in the rez area, like this is an issue if theyre properly defending. This isnt. If youāre losing the GY because youāre not properly defending it, being āTrappedā within range of the flag (yeah, you spawn literally ONE STEP from being in range as a hunter, two whole steps as most other range) isnāt going to save you anyway. And if you āgot awayā, as you ilke to claim Horde can (not really, if the Ally has mages sitting on the GY, we dont get away)ā¦ where are you going to go, exactly? Its the same with Horde who āescapeā IBGY. Where do they go, exactly?
Meanwhile, Horde spawn almost 50% further away, around a hill and out of LoS.
Choke v. Choke:
IB choke vs IWB choke.:
Iceblood āchokeā is about 3x as wide as the IWB choke. There are no NPCs literring up the place, except occasionally Murp who pats through the area. If you hug the west wall, you can run right past, avoid TP entirely, and then hit the open space below TP and pretty much lose any pursuit because its a huge field. Meanwhile, IWB choke is so narrow a single mage can freeze an entire raidā¦ and thereās 2 elite pats, a pair of ram pairs, and a pair of birds that are almost alway right in the middle of the choke. The rams can and will knock you off the cliffs and to your death.
IWB: The bunkerās archers can range to about 4 yards away from SHGY flag, allowing Alliance ranged to stand under their cone of fire, and only be ~6 yards away from the SHGY flag (well within range). If any melee charge them, the Archers will turn them into pincushions. The Horde has NOTHING like this. You know what covers defenders at IBGY? Literally nothing.
Moving South/North:
After you clear the respective chokes, the two sides become even more tilted!
Going south, the entire map opens back up into a huge open field with no terrain hazards and virtually no NPCs of any kind to threaten you. You can ride so far around FWGY that people defending it cant even see you, and ride straight into FWK (well get to that in a minute). You can avoid being hit by TPs archers entirely by sticking to the east or west wall, and come back and cap it whenever you like, beause there are no archers covering the approach from the south.
Moving north, youāre forced into one of two paths: A narrow road with a cliff on one side that a single mage can hold against an entire raid, which funnels you into a blind-turn canyon where you can be frozen and AoEd into oblivionā¦ or the path through a valley full of terrain hazards (lake you can fall into) hostile NPCs (Rams, which are 200% better than wolves because of that stupid knockback, and Harpies), and then funneled into a narrow canyon under the bridge, which also exposes you to being easily seen by any defenders at Stormpike, who are waiting for you at the top of the hill (if they didnt send a small group to freeze/AoE you in the narrow canyon under the bridge).
Allies spawn within two steps of being in range of the SP flagā¦ but FWGY (which is approachable from literally any direction, being out in the wide open field) you spawn almost 50% further away.
Keep v. Keep:
Stormpike:
The Bridge is narrow, and people can easily fall off if they get confused (or recover from a CC facing the wrong way). DBN can range out to about the middle of the bridge with THREE archers, and there are 3 NPCs at the keep side of the bridge that you MUST engage (2 of which are elite). The entire time, DBN archers are peppering you. As soon as you hit the bse of the bridge, DBS can also range on you, but only with two archers. Thats OK though, DBS can actually HIT THE AID STATION FLAG, so thereās that. Well get to that.
After you get into the keep, both bunkers can hit the entire area, and Dun Baldar South can range on the Aid Station flag with 3 archers. THere are also close to 40 NPCs, about 1/3 of which are elite and can easily 3-4 shot a DPS, peppered around the area that will aggro if you get anywhere near them, and will aggro if a friendly Ally player is CCed into them, or runs into them while being attacked (or even with Just DoTs on them).
Frostwolf Keep:
The lower bailey has only 12 NPCs in it (IF the Primalist is there). Only two of them are elite, and you can avoid ALL of them. The only one anywhere near the gate can be avoided by simply turning right at the entrance. The Frostwolf towers cannot range on the lower bailey at all. There are also three spots where you can simply ride over the wall
The bridge āequivalentā in FWK - the tower room leading up to the upper bailey - actually PROTECTS the aggressors as it prevents the FW towers from hitting them due to LoS, meaning they are exposed for about 15 yards at best as they ride up to the gate.
It can also be TOTALLY AVOIDED by simply riding around it, hugging its outer wall, and then you can avoid the āgateā of the upper bailey in the same way - both to the left and right, you can simply ride around to a hole in the wall. And the wall still prevents the archers in the FW Towers from getting LoS on you.
Once youāre actually in the upper bailey, once youre about 45 degrees pas the door of each tower (I.E. near Drekās room entrance or the bridge going to the flag), the Archers also cant hit you - because they all point uselessly out towards the gate even though they cant hit most of that area due to LoS issues. Alliance can literally stand in the upper bailey and not be attacked at all.
There are a whopping total (not including the flag guards) of FOUR NPCs in the ENTIRE upper bailey. And you have to TRY to aggro them, theyre all up against a wall or in a hut. Only one of them is elite.
Cave v Cave:
The current excuse-du-jour of the Alliance, rather than taking responsibility for their own failings and the failings of their fellow Alliance players.
The current cave locations give Horde a whopping 8-ish second advantage getting to SHGY as compared to Allies coming down from their cave, and is about a 4 second advantage vs Alliance coming from SHGY to try to reinfroce IBGY.
Thats it. Thats the current excuse. Which can be entirely mitigated by using a forward defense (dont stand around like a cadet review on top of the IBGY flag, move your CC/snare capable ranged to the area just south of IBGY flag and poof, the Horde are now slowed and your reinforcements will arrive before they do. Its literally that hard.
Oh, and the location of your Cave gives you an advantage if youāre pressed - its substantially closer (almost a full 10 seconds) to Stormpike and Stormpike keep than the Horde cave is to FWK.
But, by all means, continue on with your excuses.
The problem is people. Your own faction is griefing you. Straight up. Thats not the Hordeās fault, just like it wasnāt the Hordeās fault that we adapted because of your cheating to a more aggressive, dominating meta.
You literally brought that on yourself.
What worked for us was pointing out and complaining about your faction engaging in mass cheating
Which you were. Its not even a discussion.
Horde arenāt cheating, and the map isnāt the reason youāre losing. The map is so absurdly tilted in the favor of Alliance it makes me gag if i think about it too long. Maybeā¦ cowboy up.
And for the guy complaining about āOMG I HAD ONE WIN AND IT WAS LIKE AN HOUR AND A HALF HOW TERRIBLEā - too bad, so sad, so sorry. Not sorry. Thats what it takes for US to win, too, so get over it crybaby.
If you want to make threads complaining about your own faction members ghosting you and leeching and afkingā¦ i got your back. Thats 100% garbage and needs to be dealt with.
But be real about it. ITs not the map. It never was. Its a people problem.
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When av came out horde won 1/30 games at best because alliance premade cheats.
Looks like alliance are so wimpy, canāt win on equal terms. Must be sad to be this bad at pvp. All looks, no skill.
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Ahh, the classic āi will just say that youāre wrong without even attempting to back up my failed argumentā tactic.
Yeah, they really did. Blizzard even released win/loss rates back then. Ally was comfortably into the 60% range in both EU and US. Its likeā¦ something you could look up with like, 5 seconds of Google.
Uhā¦ yeah they do? The EU isnāt having this issue at all. Its likeā¦ you could even go read their forums. Guess what you wont see.
It isnāt. I mean, its like this has been disected to death for 15 years. I even did a breakdown just above this.
How would you āsnipe his logsāā¦ if he doesnāt log? Ive literally never done that. Ever. And ive been playing since the OG beta. The number of people that run logging is miniscule compared to the number of people who dont.
And why would that make ANY difference to his argument? Youāre only interesting in āsniping his logsā so you can try to make some completely un-connected ad-hominem. Either you can defeat his argument or you cant. (Hint: you cant)
And while it may not be your lack of personal effort and skill, its definitely a āyour factionās lack of effort, skill, and willā issue.
Most games youāre losing is because youāve got 10-15 people who are deadweightā¦ and Horde dont.
Thats not a map issue, and its not a āthose people are AFK Because we loseā - you lose because theyre afk. That simple.
Which is the only legit complaint you fellas have.
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