The Valor Points system to be implemented in 9.05 (as described by a blue post) is objectively bad for the following reasons:
(1) Only Mythic+ players can benefit from it
Raid loggers, PvPers, and casual/solo players have absolutely nothing to gain from it, even though virtually all players will be able to earn Valor through callings.
(2) Only Mythic+ gear can be upgraded
The main problem through this loot drought has been that all players, especially Mythic+ players, have not been able to obtain item upgrades or items even worth upgrading (due to slot / secondary stat issues). Even the more high-end Mythic+ players have likely chosen PvP or raiding items from the Great Vault and will be forced to refarm Mythic+ gear if they want to take part in the new system.
(3) The upgrade cap of iLvl 220 is too low
Mythic+ as one of the three pillars competitive endgame content should be a viable gearing path even in isolation. PvP gearing is still superior because you can buy specific items with Conquest and upgrade them to iLvl 226 (233) with infinitely farmable Honor. The issue of Mythic+ being an inferior gearing system and being too reliant on RNG and the Great Vault is not solved.
(4) The keystone achievements as prerequisites are absurd
Having to complete every single dungeon at a certainly difficulty is too reliant on RNG in that you and your team obtain keys randomly, too reliant on luck in finding someone with the key for the right dungeon and difficulty, or too reliant on the purchase of boosts. Additionally, the goal of gearing up through Mythic+ should be to attempt higher keys with the rewards you earned through lower keys; but in the Valor System they have come up with, 8 +15s would be too challenging if you are still stuck with just a few pieces at the upgrade of iLvl 213 gear and everything else inferior to that due to RNG and low drop rates.
If you agree that the incoming system is insufficient, please like this post, post a comment below, or let Blizzard know in any other appropriate way. Thank you.
The Valor system is exactly what we’ve needed. Upgradable M+ gear with the upgrade levels gated behind actually timing keys at applicable levels.
I’d argue that the levels are a little out of whack (getting 1800 in pvp is a lot easier than timing every key at +15), but those dials can be easily turned / are not fundamentally problematic. Otherwise, the system is exactly what we needed to have in SL from the get-go.
In fact, I’d say just about the only problem with it is that you still have to rely on the extremely poor Mythic + RNG to give you the correct items. It would be better if it more accurately mirrored pvp in that you could, at points, purchase particular items. But even then this is a massive step in the right direction for helping pve by an actually viable gearing path.
Nah, I think it’s good for the game. It’s either this or making loot more plentiful, because as it stands there are too many players stuck at low item level out of sheer luck alone. Any bad luck protection at all right now is welcome.
Although, I do agree that they should extend the system to raid gear as well… although at a much higher price, and obviously not at a level to where it can supercede gear from a higher difficulty.
It’s only the first iteration, as long as they keep listening to the community, there’s likely to be positive changes to happen before it goes to live servers. But at the end of the day, we need this.
If they add some manor of valor point system to raids, they would have to cap it as well so it doesn’t devalue mythic raid gear, which honestly is fine.
They’re planning on having casuals buy carries to get access to this, or just quit and go find some other game to play so their presence won’t annoy elites anymore.
If the ability to earn valor slowly is anything like the ability to earn echoes of Nyalotha by doing casual content in BfA to buy essences, they stealth removed that ability for anyone without the cloak. They could put in a similar stealth nerf in Shadowlands. And I would be surprised if they aren’t planning on that already.
The system is a good start, and a compromise to random drops (Group Loot/ML that us raiders miss), as well as opening the ceiling to rewards on M+.
Personally, I would like to see the system upgrade the specific dungeon drops, or something to not come off as having a large requirement (+15 for all dungeons is rough as a casual). As a solo DPS close to completely pushing KSM I’m not particularly bothered by this.
Also, as a raider, I agree with the gear cap not being equal to Mythic raiding. Relatively close is fine. Some of the top teams are already doing Mythic raiding or top end PvP gearing to push keys, so I don’t see why it also needs to be equal at a +15 when M+'s top end is so gimmicky as it is.
If you could upgrade raid gear, I’d be for it. I don’t really like M+ content and honestly, I don’t need the stuff it drops for anything. I can do raids fine with the gear I get elsewhere. But I suppose now I’ll be forced to do it or look undergeared all the time.
The biggest issues is that you can’t earn valor points from all endgame PVE content and that you can’t use it to actually buy gear.
I wasn’t even worried about upgrading gear. Sure it would be nice to have but the main gripe is that gear is difficult to get because gear drops are now rarer so valor points would have dropped as a currency as a sort of “bad luck protection” so people can directly purchase the gear they want after running endgame content enough times.
(1) Yes, only people who do Mythic+ can benefit from this particular system.
Raiders still get loot from the raid. PvP players still have access to a wide variety of loot other players do not. Casual / solo players still have access to loot they have always had access to. Nothing is being taken away.
(2) Yes, only Mythic+ gear can be upgraded with Valor points
Similar to Conquest and Honor, you mean? You make the point here that it’s not bad, it’s actually good now that Mythic+ players aren’t forced to go into PvP?
(3) The upgrade cap of iLvl 220 ensures players won’t be reliant on this system to hit their maximum upgrades.
This means that the Great Vault, 2400+ rating for PvP & Mythic raids will continue to be the end source of gear. It’s intended as an upgrade path, not an end of progression for gear path.
(4) The keystone achievements as prerequisites to upgrade item levels ensure people can’t just boost by as fast as possible.
I cannot disagree more with your post here; and it’s clear the community doesn’t agree either. The amount of support and calls for this to happen has been immense ever since late December.
You seem to be out of touch with what the general population of the community want. You are in the minority here.
I disagreed from you until you mentioned callings. That’s a good point. WQ, Mission table, and Calling gear should also be eligible - but the question is what’s the threshold they would need to attain to upgrade the gear?
The M+ criteria make sense - but I’m not sure what else could be used outside of M+ for something like that. Maybe AotC?
I guess. But that’s not too far off from where it should be. Given the ability to even upgrade with the system, I guess I’ll be happy with it - but I wouldn’t be upset at all if they increased the cap.
Again, I started to disagree with you, but I get your point. A system that allows you to reroll your key would be nice.
I don’t like it because I’ll feel compelled to do M+ content now or I’ll be considered “undergeared” to eveveryone by comparison. Right now I get by fine.
ilvl 220 is fair enough, otherwise you’re just wanting to run M+ to get Mythic Raid Gear and that’s what folks in BFA hated: that one could get to the same ilvl as M Nyalotha without even setting foot in it. At least with that req, it makes getting loot for H and Mythic much easier
No it isn’t. What is needed is to get rid of M+ altogether. It’s a time suck and it’s boring. This just makes you have to do it even more. What is needed is other content that isn’t dependent on running the same 1 hour instances over and bashing your head against it. Bring back gear tokens like MoP.