Since folks asked (and I guess they can’t find it on their own)
Top 5,000 players in 3v3 arena (which is the ENTIRE ladder)
1 - Destro Warlock (631)
2 - H paladin (609)
3 - Fire mage (513)
4 - Assassin Rogue (480)
5 - MW Monk (379)
6 - DH (269)
7 - Disc Priest (262)
8 - Shadow Priest (219)
9 - Arms warrior (206)
10 - R druid (182)
11 - Unholy DK (181)
12 - WW Monk (170)
13 - R shaman (163)
14 - Ele Shaman (122)
15 - Ret paladin (98)
For conclusions… (much like 2v2) — Holy paladin is extremely over represented (highest healer by 2:1 margin). Destro warlock is also over represented by 2:1 margin against all but the fire mage and assassin rogue.
EDIT to include my thoughts…
I feel that Blizzard should reign in the outliers. If you want a balanced game… you should not have some specs running standard deviations past the norm.
This trickles down into Arena LFG. If you play the meta - you get groups… if you don’t, you won’t find a group for hours.
I don’t think it is healthy for the game to be this unbalanced.
2 Likes
Destro is op.
Fire is really strong
A combo of the top 4 put together is really strong.
DH’s most represented melee (apart from rogue in 3’s) accross the board in 2’s and 3’s.
Looks pretty legit.
1 Like
Are you showing the numbers just for the sake of showing the numbers or do you have a point to make here?
3 Likes
numbers alone dont tell the whole story. lock has nearly quadrupled from their representation just 5 months ago which was about their average over the last 3-4 expansions. If i was a game designer and i saw a class have a pretty steady representation for almost a decade spike up 4x in a 5 month period id like to think i would see there was an issue and look to address it. there is also a game breaking imp dispel bug that has gone unfixed
So what you’re saying is nerf ret
1 Like
It is simple really… I feel that Blizzard should reign in the outliers. If you want a balanced game… you should not have some specs running standard deviations past the norm.
This trickles down into Arena LFG. If you play Hpal, you’ll get into any group instantly. If you play rsham… you won’t. If you play Destro, you get into groups instantly. If you play Ret… you won’t.
I don’t think it is healthy for the game to be this unbalanced.
1 Like
I mean we can look at these numbers and see classes are popular but can you really say they’re overtuned from this? WW is the strongest melee, on par with Sin, and it’s lower than arms or DK despite having walking dead and WW/Destro to play because people don’t like playing monk. Feral and Survival are missing from that and I’d say Jungle is a stronger comp than anything Ret has but Ret is up there because Feral, typically, has low numbers even when the spec is S tier. Same with survival, hunters have really low rep right now despite being pretty OK.
2 Likes
I struggle to follow your logic. You are saying “Jungle is still strong” but the ladder (showing the highest 5,000 players in the game) doesn’t show jungle being high at all (with the lack of feral and hunter).
I wish I could get hearthstone style metrics for WoW (spec winrate & how many people play it) - but Blizzard likes to keep this behind a curtain. I struggle to accept “Jungle is strong” in today’s meta… when it has almost 0 representation at a high rating compared to Mage/Lock/Rogue
1 Like
Just because a spec doesn’t have a ton of representation doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t good tyrza. People play what they like to play. So while jungle isn’t an S tier comp, its still pretty good but feral / survival are already very underplayed specs/classes so you’d expect a composition that includes both of them to be under represented.
While this data does help a bit, it isn’t the end all be all of what is balanced or not.
1 Like
Unfortunately we can only make conclusions based on the data we are allowed to have.
That’s because you are using these numbers out of context. In order to try and use these numbers for balance issues, past the obvious glaring ones like destro and rmpal, you would have to know the numbers on how many people actually play this spec vs another and etc. Its why representation is not a good argument for balance.
2 Likes
Again - this is the only data we have.
I would argue that if SV was as strong as Destro… a LOT of people would be playing it.
You’re argument would be incorrect. Survival is strong, especially on paper, the meta however means that survival has to work harder than other specs like rogue/mage/destro. Plus survival is a very underplayed spec as it is.
There is more data, for example look at this image below I compiled based off representation in brackets.
https://imgur.com/a/2cvulNg
So here, we see destro start of really strong then RMP just absolutely takes off. There is more than just class representation. Even my data isn’t perfect. It important to note that just because a class like destro might get 2k easily or more people just start playing it, watching the trend as better players utilize these classes can give you a better indication of what is the best comp, what is meta.
Edit: sorry for some of the highlighting mistakes in the image. Was compiling the other day and hurried it up to show here for OP. Ele rep declines over the latter and UH improves slightly.
As soon as i saw this i knew you were going to run into the " stats dont matter" and “you dont know how to interpret the data” crowd.
I have ran into this ever time i have presented data that conflicts with people’s opinions.
jungle is a very good comp but the amount of pvp hunters has always been really low. even when they are strong they dont really fluctuate all that much. rep% isnt the tell all factor. its the sharp rise or fall that is a better indicator. like i mentioned earlier locks having the same rep % for almost a decade and then more than tripling over the last 5 months is a clear indication of power. but low rep doesnt mean they are weak there is a little more nuance to the numbers.
warrior of example over the last 4 years has dropped by around 40-45%. granted they were pretty bad in legion but have been serviceable in BFA the decline was more of a shift in playstyle. shamans dps specs have been notoriously pretty trash for a very long time ele was near unplayable for like 5 years and enhance had parts of a seaosn here or there. hunter also took a dip since they really only had 1 comp last expansion and they only have 1 real spec in bfa and it was one of the most popular pvp specs when it was ranged but now being melee it didnt scratch peoples itch because they play hunter for ranged for the most part. hunter is one of the most played classes in the game but one of the lowest conversion to pvp.
TLDR - rep % isnt a direct indicator of power, a sharp rise or fall in rep % is a much better indicator of power and as with everything there are outliers
So… rdruid dropping to nothing from Season 3-4… and the change the MW dropping them down for the recent nerfs… and then Hpal going to the top would be prove that Hpal is overpowered according to you yes?
I mean - Destro was non-existent… and is now #1 with corruption. I don’t understand why you say “This data doesn’t mean anything” - when it is obvious, the class %'s rise and fall with how strong they are.
yes pally is op. its the best healer in the game by a decent bit. im guessing the 2nd part of that reply isnt for me
Destro is still very good but RMX comps are as strong, if not stronger. WW DH is also really good, same with jungle. Again, a lot of people switched to destro when it was really busted during the vers / conflict stacking + life cocoon. Its slowly dropping now at the higher end.
the problem is, a current snapshot of the ladder doesn’t show how bad the situation is with locks. I would be curious to what the numbers looked like if you could ONLY look at players who have been active in the last month in arena.