As subject line states, what is the required hit needed against rogues with heightened senses? Since that talent gives them -4% hit against spells and ranged sources, do we technically need 7% hit rating in order to hit them at “3%” chance (from 7% - 4% = 3%)?
I tried googling a bit but couldn’t find the answer. Thanks in advance!
Well pvp spells require 3% to be base hit capped. So against sub rogues it’d be 7% for spells. Against hunter’s ranged it’d be 9%.
+defense works the same way. You could be a 2H warrior with +5% hit (hit capped for yellow attacks in pvp) and still miss your mortal strike on another warrior wearing +defense gear.
Oh duh, right mixed up hit cap for melee vs spells. So then we’d have to take into account the -4% as flat addition that rogues get, so 7% would be needed against rogues. Makes sense.
good luck getting 7% spell hit without sacrificing stamina for pvp or something haha , unless you got the best trinket in the game neltharions tear then its ez mode
And any resistances on top of all of that.
Do you know how much +resistance = how much -%? So for example, how much -% would +50 shadow resistance provide to fear, or +50 frost resistance to frost nova, etc?
Resistance works like armor in that it caps out at 75% damage reduction. Against a level 20 opponent 100 resistance is cap. Against a level 60 its 300. Unlike armor the 75% is the average damage reduction. So out of 100 casts the average reduction will be 75%. So for example, out of 100 casts 25 will be totally resisted, 50 will have 75% resist and 25 will be 50%, 25% or 0% resisted, with very few ~1% doing full damage. This is for damage spells.
For binary spells like fear or nova I believe that at full resistance 75% of casts will be fully resisted. I don’t know if blizzard has ever confirmed that for sure, however. Getting 300 resistance - or 315 against boss level mobs - isn’t the simplest thing in the world.
I also believe that like armor there is a diminishing return as you get closer to resistance cap. So the earlier points provide relatively more protection than later ones. Again this has not been confirmed.
There are no diminishing returns with Resistance. WotLK is when they made that change.
The important lock spells(fear, dots, deathcoil, drain) for pvp are Affliction ones which we can get 10% for in talents easily in our pvp builds.
Base hit rating + the value in talents you have to overcome + any resistance in his raid gear, see the resistance tables for that. HS provides 2% per point. Most sub rogues will have 2points for the total 4%.
I love when spell caster noobs don’t spec into extra +hit talents because they only need “3%” for PvP.
So based off the formula here from here wowwiki fandom below:
Average Resistance = (Target’s Resistance / (Caster’s Level * 5)) * 0.75
*where Avg Res. is basically hit / miss for binary spells as mentioned in the notes
If a lvl 60 has 50 nature resistance, it would be (50 / (60 *5)) * .75 = .125 = 12.5%
So in other words, 50 resistance = 12.5% miss chance for binary spells?
And if above is true, a rogue with heightened senses + 50 resistance (let’s just say NR again for simplicity sake) would have 4% + 4% + 12.5% = 20.5% chance to resist a druid’s root?
And if above 20.5% value is true, a druid would theoretically need 19.5% +hit (since there 1% chance to always miss spells) to be hit capped against that rogue, correct?
That’s probably accurate.
No. Hit and resistance are two separate checks. The first check would be to see if the spell hit at all, so with heightened senses the rogue has an 8% chance to resist. The next check is for resistance, which would be 12.5% based off resistance values. The way you overcome resistance on targets is with items like Don Rodrigo’s Band, the mage talent Arcane Subtlety or Curse of Shadows.
So for your example the chance a rogue with heightened senses would resist something binary like fear or roots or poly absent any of those or any spell hit would be 19.5%, not 20.5%. 0.92 for hit check * 0.875 for resistance check = 80.5% to hit
How is it calculated for level differences? Is it a static “5 per level”?
Or is it a separate number as it is a “universal resistance” that includes Holy (this is the only instance where Holy resist truly happens as there is no other Holy Resist). Does Sageblade and other items help reduce it?
Okay so I found something interesting from WoW gamepedia regarding resistance. It says:
“Resistance reduces the chance for the binary spell to land by a certain percentage. Spell hit will not reduce this chance. It is assumed that this percentage is exactly the damage reduction percentage given above.”
So as Incandenza mentioned, seems like -resistance talents/items would be the only way to reduce the resistance portion of the 2 checks (I did not know that resistance had a separate check vs -hit).
So theoretically in order to address a Heightened Senses rogue, +7% hit would be correct. At the same time, if that rogue also has +10 NR (i.e. T2 chest piece), a druid would need an item like Don Rodrigo’s to forego that 2.5% avg. resist [= (10 / (60*5)) * .75 = .025] since it is a separate check from hit.
So in summary, you need +7% hit to address the -8% hit chance (remember innate 1% spell miss chance) and -10 resistance or greater to address a Rogue with Heightened Senses & 10 NR.
Does this all sound correct?
Yeah that sounds right, but like you said even if you do all that you’re still going to have a 1% miss chance you can never get rid of. Now for normal, everyday pvp is it worth it to get 7% spell hit for 1 build of 1 class? No. Better to just itemize for 3% hit and then get enough resistance reduction to overcome the ~25 increase to resists from MotW, which from what I recall is how people itemized in tbc arena.
Yes, it’s absolutely worth it with how OP melee dps scales in vanilla 
Distance is everything.
Thanks, this will help a lot in itemization, speccing, etc. Don Rodrigo’s Band REALLY looks even more good now for PvP with all the random +resistances that are on the tier pieces.
I’ll even shoot for -60 res (reachable with AQ gears and tier 2.5) against the likes of pallies’ auras and priests’ shadow protection. Even a warlock in tier 1 with Demon Armor has like 50 shadow res.