Please buff/modify MotFW so 2h is competitive with DW and can play Shattering builds effectively.
The preferred method would be to bake a version of Fallen Crusader into MotFW and tune the strength buff and obliteration damage accordingly.
New MotFW: When wielding a two-handed weapon, there is a chance for your weapon to heal you for X% and increase total strength by X% for X% seconds. Obliterate damage is increased by X% and auto attack critical strikes always grant Killing Machine.
Not being able to play Shattering Builds effectively as 2h feels bad.
At the very least, a buff the current version of MotFW to a competitive level would be appreciated.
Other solutions would be to design some talents(build) that favor 2h, or adjust the background aura to make Howling blast hit much hard when using 2h. The MotFW version just seemed easier in my mind.
I’m not looking for 2h to be better than DW outright, but we should be able to choose 2h without hamstring ourselves out of important and fun talent choices.
Edit:
There would have to be a mechanism to prevent double dipping back into Fallen Crusader.
Another option would be to bake Razorice into MotFW instead since that’s the typical offhand enchant for dw that we need but can’t use as 2h frost. That way we can continue using Fallen Crusader on our 2h weapon.
Frost needs to be redesigned away from auto attack procs. If there is a talent that relies on procs, then Remorseless Winter or disease ticks would be better since they get the same number of procs regardless of weapon type. Auto attack procs will always favor dw since 1h weapons are faster and there are 2 of them.
2h and dw frost need to be balanced. 2h frost is too far behind dw and needs to be brought up to be roughly equal to dw.
That is what I was initially thinking but landed on FC as the one to bake in for a few reasons but mostly because it would limit build choice which is what I am trying to avoid. For example, BoS is actually 2Hs best DB build, we would want to take some version of FC and Stoneskin. Not razor and FC.
I see what you’re saying. I was not aware of how to gear for a build that I hate (BoS). It’s unfortunate that BoS would ever be better for 2h frost with any hero tree since I always want to avoid it. Build variety is good to have. I do use Riders instead of DB personally.
The variable duration and rp/sec resource cost for BoS kills it for me. I hated Legion/BfA void form, which had similar gameplay. I still want to avoid taking Void Eruption on my spriest even after they changed it. I don’t want anything to do with that kind of gameplay on one of my two favorite specs in the game (2h frost without BoS and TG fury). I hope there is always a competitive alternative to BoS that is based on large Obliterate hits that I can use instead.
I agree, MotFW as it is designed does not allow 2h FDK to use its whole kit and not a good solution.
Going to push back slightly here.
DB BOS is absolutely viable with 2h now that Obliteration is not mutually exclusive with Breath. I ran it all last patch. Sims about 2+% behind DW right now.
Riders Shatter using 2h with Razor Ice builds the stacks plenty fast. Sims about 4+% behind DW right now.
2H Riders without shatter is almost exactly equal to 2H BoS right now.
The problem is overall throughput. If FC was baked into MotFW 2h would be on par with 2W as is. They would probably even have to nerf the obliterate portion. Even if they went the lazy rout and buffed MotFW obliterate damage as is it would be pretty close.
The auto attack crit guarantee to provide killing machine and obliterate damage bonus of MotFW are almost the same thing you are asking for. 2h just doesnt have the stats yet to hit 25% haste while maintaining enough mastery/crit. So your solution would help with that for sure.
I like the idea of more talent options for customizing BoS.
Another option regarding runeforges (and enchants for non-DKs) would be to limit them to main hand weapons only. That way all frost DKs will have the same number of runeforges (DK) or enchants (non-DKs) regardless of whether they have one 2h weapon or two 1h weapons equipped. That might be a simpler solution overall to balance the number of runeforges between 2h/dw.
This doesn’t reflect what I’ve seen tbh. Also are these single target sims because as soon as you introduce more targets DW should widen the gap even further, which is a problem since most content is not pure single target.
The problem with this is that it does nothing to future proof. If both weapon types can have equal number of runeforges then tuning of runeforges doesn’t matter. It also doesn’t solve the problem of gameplay where 2H is behind again. Getting more procs is just more fun, even if damage is equal.
Another idea that I’ve floated elsewhere is making the damage related functionality of runeforges a part of the talent tree, which would be much easier to balance. The act of runeforging itself could be a DK exclusive cosmetic that gives us visible runes and glows.
Would be nice to have the ability to customize BoS into a more m+ friendly ability, so that the build is not at the complete mercy of the tank/route for its damage.
What’s more fun is subjective. That’s why it’s better design to have real differences in how 2H and DW play. So let DW have more procs, and let 2H have harder-hitting procs.
They’ve been experimenting with BoS variations internally. For example, these were datamined on the 11.1 PTR. They’ve since been removed, but you can see them on WoWDB.
Breath of Sindragosa
Pillar of Frost now consumes 60 Runic Power to call forth the aid of Sindragosa for 6 sec, continuously dealing [ 77.7% of Attack Power + 77.7% of Off-hand Attack Power ] Frost damage every 1 sec to enemies in a cone in front of you. Deals reduced damage to secondary targets.
Each Rune spent increases the duration of Breath of Sindragosa by 1 sec.
Might of the Frozen Throne
Instant 60 sec cooldown
Consume all Runic Power and channel the power of the Frozen Throne to increase your Strength by 30% and
continuously deal [ 77.7% of Attack Power + 77.7% of Off-hand Attack Power ] Frost damage every 1 sec to enemies in a cone in front of you. Deals reduced damage to secondary targets.
It might be subjective but procs are a big part of making a spec feel dynamic and the majority of people would agree that having them is more fun than not. If it was good design we wouldn’t have so many discussion about the failures of MotFW and 2H.
A better design would be to give the player the option via the main mechanism for this type of thing: the talent tree.
Weapon choice should be purely aesthetic and the devs have the ability to do this and make it very close, they just won’t give DKs the time of day. It’s been a series of band-aids and flawed choices since Legion.
I hope that they are experimenting and are going to show us a redesign soon, this class is in dire need of one.