2h has fallen behind considerably given most of the new talents favor DW. Which is fine, DW is cool and I’m happy it slaps for those that like it, but…
Please use the tuning knob and buff MotFW so 2h hand is in the same ballpark. Not asking for 2h to be the best but at least competitive.
They have a tuning knob, use it!
Could also bake Razorice into MotFW:
Wielding a two-handed weapon increases Obliterate damage by 30%, and your auto attack critical strikes always grant Killing Machine and Razorice
Maybe there is a way to make Riders more appealing to the 2h crowd. Any ideas?
I’ve said this a bunch before and I’ll say it again here, MotfW is not well designed and simply tuning it will not solve 2H’s real problems.
2H has much fewer natural KMs. It stacks RI very slowly. It can’t play Shattered Frost or any Breath build and falls behind in Obliteration builds. They could be lazy and just buff current MotFW to the moon, but it’ll still play badly for anyone who can see beyond their combat text.
The only MotFW buff I’d advocate for is changing it to give an auto attack speed buff that gives it parity with DW’s number of AAs, and the ability to pick a second Runeforge.
Talked about this issue in oh… i dont know… SL beta, and that you might as well just make 2h a transmog option and people said no because they dont want a 2h swinging fast.
I say let 2h wilt and wither away like it should have long ago. Maybe reality will set in for some people at that point.
Where’s the rube that kept parroting 2h Oblit wouldn’t fall behind when all the new talents favored DW, exactly how I said it would? I think the current projection is something like 5-9% behind DW.
More on topic, need better balancing for sure, but devs having done what they’ve done for the “rework”, it won’t be a simple fix. They’ve now shot themselves in one foot, then the other, and then repetitively over and over.
The imbalance will continue to exist until they pick a singular weapon type, or talents/procs are redesigned to a point as to not be influenced by attack speed.
2h is 2.5% behind with current sim projections for the non-Breath+AA build (Deathbringer Shattering DW). For Breath+AA it’s 6% and DW DB is 3.4%~.
Unless Blizzard is 100% fine with Breath + AA (which I doubt since they tried to kill it a few times so far) these complaints about 2h being “massively behind”, especially when we haven’t even entered S1 or had any real tuning yet, are objectively overblown.
Maybe when sims are finalized that gap doubles and then sure, that’s a problem. But 2.5% is hardly “massive”.
Also quite funny how it’s “where’s the rube saying it wouldn’t fall behind when it clearly has” but where were you and all the other 2h players when, outside of high end raiding, DW was shoved out for an entire expansion? Why was fixing DW to be viable in M+/PvP/literally anything else other than raiding consistently shut down but the minute 2h starts falling behind it’s a problem that needs to be immediately addressed?
I would really like them to kill Breath+AA but given the blatant favoritism & disingenuousness of these forums, I’m kind of hoping they don’t so everyone can suffer together.
Sims used for reference
DW DB https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jGBWtEQ3VskpZ76JoNMxNC
2h DB https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6ZSorQ4atEVkW8KDT2yNjY
The 2.5% estimate and the sims you linked are single target patchwerks, which applies to very few real scenarios. The gap is larger in multi-target and therefore significant for most people.
That’s mainly a M+ issue though. In raids, multi-target is mostly just cleaving or priority damage, both of which are slightly more negative towards Shattering DB than 2h DB.
Yes it’s a bigger gap in AoE but that gap being “more significant for most people” doesn’t really seem factual to me since it’s mainly confined to 1 end game pillar that 51% of the community isn’t playing. You’re not full speccing AoE for PvP or 90% of raid bosses, even those with adds. Not getting Shattered Frost will very likely offset that gap to keep it near that 2.5%~ spread for an actual majority of the playerbase in endgame.
Sure, it could be a much bigger spread and therefore a problem, but basing any changes on pre-sim finalization, pre-Season 1 start, and pre-Mythic week opening data is entirely premature.
FDK was basically meme status throughout DF, so however much I don’t like to say it, FDK has been irrelevant in PvP in regards to balancing and lack thereof.
Second, 2h oblit was the go to spec for dps DK in m+ for the majority of DF, so AOE considerations in terms of spec/wep/ability tuning are hugely important, and that’s where the larger gap lies.
Third, I’m all for doing away with having DW and 2h, or RF and attack speed normalization so weapon choice is irrelevant, but our dev often lacks braincells when it comes to this topic/idea. I also wouldn’t mind having breath reworked entirely so that it’s no longer a channel and more along the lines of a build/burn so it still retains some essence of it’s current implementation while having shorter burst on a shorter effective cd. But we got some new talents and tree shuffling instead of a proper rework, which will likely be shelved for years.
Baking Fallen Crusader into MotFW would be better than my original suggestion of baking RI to it. It would really solve a lot of issues like the Shattered Frost issue you brought up. Then they could tune obliterate damage accordingly.
MotFW:
Wielding a two-handed weapon imbues the weapon with Rune of the Fallen Crusader and increases Obliterate damage by 30%. Your auto attack critical strikes always grant Killing Machine.
I disagree with the posters who have such an emotional problem with 2h and DW existing with some of the loudest opinions coming from someone who doesn’t even play.
This right here. The core problem with the conflict between the two weapon types is just how much of our kit relies on auto attack hits, which DW is naturally able to outpace 2H on. No amount of damage tuning can fix that issue. Auto-attack speed/procs are were they need to go to fix the discrepancy.