As we all know, BrM can do 10s and can do up to 15, but the skill it takes to get to 15s is night and day against Prot Paladin.
While Im not asking for BrM to be on the same level, I would like to see a bit of tweaking to bring them in line.
The main issue I see with BrM is self-sustain. And while I understand that balancing for M+ may make tanking Raids too easy, something needs to be done.
I suggest bringing back the DFS3 tier set as a talent. You heal for 50% of fire damage done. It doesnt have to be 50%, even 25 or 30% can bring BrM up to a level of safety within M+. Celestial Brew is fine when played well with Purifying. Heck even Expel Harm and free Vivifys can do a lovely amount of healing.
The other bufff we should get is damage output. Lazily going into a pull on my 620 Prot Paly, I can easily hit more than 2M on a decent (5+) pack. While the same can be said for BrM, it takes a lot more to get to that and the sustain just feels a bit weaker.
I love Monks, they are unique and a fun class to play, I just want them to be better and more accessable to the average abd majority of players.
Nah, in a perfect balacing world each class and spec would be equal with everyone else. Unfortunately that is so very tough to accomplish with all of the different abilities, playstyles, talents that buff abilities, stat scaling etc.
I like where itâs at now. Iâd rather it have its original niche of being the top DPS tank. Or give it some actual utility to solidify its spot in a comp.
At a minimum just buff CB. Then rework niuzao later on cause it needs it.
The only thing that makes brew feel bad when comparing to prot pally is the dmg they do is obscene
Iâm about to give up on the Monk class. Itâs fine that not all classes need to be equally complex, but I expect a proportional reward for the effort you put into mastering it.
Iâm not saying the Monk class is overly complex, but there should be a better balance between the effort required to master it and the rewards it provides.
I feel it lacks sustain in in the way that we heal ourselves via incoming damage to a point, unless im wrong.
The more damage we take, the more we heal. If we take very little damage we canât heal as much, there isnt much point to healing much though because we take so little damage.
If we take too much incoming damage, ie large pulls, weâre bouncing more than a BDK that doesnât know how to shield. Relying on Brews to smooth things over but without much of a cusion to smooth us out other than stagger.
there is a perfect level of incoming damage and self sustain we can hit though if things go well, which feels great but doesnât happen often.
Brewâs primary âweaknessesâ in M+ are a lack of scaling into AoE like other tanks get and a lack of Brewmaster-specific utility first and foremost. Sustain isnât really an issue at all between CB smoothing damage (which does need a slight buff tbh), large bursts with Gai Plinâs and Expel Harm drawing in orbs and CF providing additional sustain via the cleave healing we take in. We could also use some slight talent reworks and buffs to individual abilities, the most jarring being needing Niuzao both condensed into 1 node instead of a 4 point investment and being buffed into a noteworthy CD.
Brewmaster lacks scaling into AoE full stop. Prot Pal, with a 1 point investment into Gift of the Golden Valâkyr, gets absolutely massive CDR on GoAK in AoE (5s per avengerâs shield, with Divine Toll offering a massive chunk of CDR) plus a pretty solid pseudo-cheat with the GoAK procs when you reach low health. Most tanks have similar talents, either giving more CDR based on targets hit or more resource generation. Brewmasterâs equivalent is a fairly mediocre shield via Elixir of Determination. A&S is the closest we have to scaling into AoE, but the overall CDR in a dungeon is relatively small with 1 point and finding the second point just feels bad.
I personally believe the return of effects such as Boiling Brew, Firestone Walkers, the T18 4pc, and maybe Keg of the Heavens if they want to throw Brewmasters a bone would go a long way without breaking our balance as one of the best raid tanks.
Well put! While I didnât play brew in T18, the set bonus seems like it would be good today.
Though between random TP procs, BoK+KS (in emergency) and other procs I feel the CDR may reach a bit too much.
As for lack of utility, I feel that. Druid, Paladin, and DK have battle resses. DH, Paly, and DK have aoe pulls and silence (aboms and mass captain america). Warriors zoom and aoe stuns are nice too. Monks have roll which can be good for positioning but it doesnt have the oompf that heroic leap has.
Imo if Monks as a class got something like Zen Break (a bloodlust type) that would be really cool. We have the physical damage buff still, which can help, but not too many classes use pure physical attacks. Maybe it can be change to a flat damage increase of 5 or 7%.
Alas, its tough to balance brew to M+ as we are already powerful raid tanks
Brew CDR definitely wouldnât get too intense, especially since the T18 set specifically effected Purifying Brew and what is now Celestial Brew, which in and of itself is rather weak. Likewise, Firestone Walkers had a cap on how much CDR it could provide, similar to Prot Warriorâs Thunderlord. Prot Warrior and Prot Paladin have so much CDR that their 4/5m CDs are somewhere around an effective 1-1.5m with decent haste, proper play and the right talents.
Monk is by far the most mobile tank, so I definitely wonât complain about roll, especially now with Lighter Than Air.
I donât think Monk will ever get a Bloodlust, frankly I doubt any tank class will ever get one. We need either Guided Meditation or Avert Harm moved from PvP talents to PvE, giving us a group defensive, and maybe one of Shaâs Ring of Peace cooks (double RoP or RoP gets converted into a silence effect inside the ring) would help. Wouldnât be Brewmaster specific, but would help tremendously.
Not brew specific but Mystic touch should buff all damage of melee specs. Would peobably need a small nerf then but it would be less bad since all melee are loaded with damage types other than physical.
Clash needs to be buffed for brew. Several of the talents in the brew tree should be baseline. Tanks shouldnt be talented into basic abilities for tanking.
If all the Ox talents got rolled into one it would probably be a good point to spend.
I feel like mystic touch just being a damage buff for all melee specs would just be battle shout 2.0. All melee specs (and hunters) scale off attack power, so itâs basically the same thing with a different skin. Iâm fine with them keeping mystic touch a phys damage bonus, but it needs to be slightly increased to be a decent buff in M+. Or they could bring back one of the pre-legion buffs monk had, Legacy of the Emperor (+5% primary stat, all types) or Legacy of the White Tiger (the same but with +5% Crit tacked on). Obviously these would need some tuning, and for something that gives everyone primary stat probably wouldnât go higher than 1%, but itâd be something.
Do agree that Brew needs some pruning of mandatory talents. It has way too many that are required for the spec to function, some of which being far too low in the tree to be acceptable for mandatory talents. I think Niuzao needs a bit of a buff or a baseline CD reduction to be worth it though, even with all the talents molded into one. Also needs better pathing, preferably (if it stays in the same spot) via a connection to Elixir of Determination.
Flat buffing stagger is potentially volatile for raid balancing and doesnât directly increase Brewmasterâs performance in M+ unless itâs an absurd buff. We really just need some AoE scaling, tuning and talent reworks, with maybe some utility tacked on. I would like Black Ox Brew and Bob and Weave to be separated from the arbitrary choice node that theyâre on, though. Doubt it would be terribly game breaking to have both and BNW just feels worse to take.
Everything youâre saying is just agreeing that we have no issues with sustain lol.
We are not spikier than a bdk unless you are playing wrong. In massive DMG scenarios we literally turn into a bdk except much more stable.
I did a 12 SV last night, the double trash pull after the first boss, and the big hallway pull with the 10+ mini tank buster dwarves + 6 pack. I didnât kite or panic and my health bar was extremely stable and only had either fort brew or dampen for the pulls. I also just ate a spike every spawn on Edna to make the healers job ez mode, cause we just can lol.
Proper timing of CB and stagger freeze and purify to not waste the massive gai plin heals makes it super easy. If you donât panic defensive or purify and only use something when there is a spike of DMG incoming you completely smooth over the spikes and your health bar barely even moves.
I only have 4% vers too lol
Feels cringey to plug my video again but just to show we donât have issues with sustain:
I feel like black ox brew feels terrible to take over bob.
Bob is essentially a free 3sec freeze on stagger ish on all damage and makes it way safer to sit in red to push dmg and gives more Gai Plin healing indirectly.
I cant imagine why anyone would need black ox brew unless you screwed up. If celestial brew was still really strong I could see it, but I only see ox brew as bonus purifies
Iâm sorry, but the forums have clearly told me any of that is impossible. You must have faked that entire video. Tis as the forums demands, BrM is horrible!
Black ox brew can be used as a defensive CD where, if you are going to take a lot of dmg and have no mitigation you can chain purifies, heal a bunch with gai lin, and be alright. In larger pulls in higher keys it pays off when you frequently have stagger ticking for over 1m dmg, where purifying once might not get you to a safe level.
1s of CDR per hit on one of your largest defensives on an ability that hits well over a thousand times a dungeon definitely does count lol. Might not have the most AoE scaling of other tanks, but it definitely counts.
Youâre entitled to your opinion, but Black Ox Brew is just a massive survivability gain and moderate DPS gain on a fairly short CD after brew CDR. As Riyyah said, in higher keys being able to have double Celestial Brews where you otherwise might be out of defensives is massive, even with the relative weakness of CB.
Iâm by no means a successful BrM monk but in my brief cameos as one, I noticed a few issues.
Monks have have to work harder for lesser results
Their damage is ok, but not available on demand and requires more effort
They have lowest HP among tanks
They donât have a wall (which in high keys is a big deal)
Their sustained healing is pretty average.
Now if you improved 2 or 3 of the above you probably wouldnât need to touch the rest, however as it stands these are the issues I noticed.
I donât know if it would be busted but I thought of a few changes that could deal with some of the issues, mostly leaning into stagger to make it happen.
Wall - Inconceivable - 3 min cd. For the next 15 seconds 50% of all damage the Monk staggers is immediately purified as itâs received. Damage purified this way releases iocane brew that deals damage equal to 15% of the amount purified to all enemies within 10 yds and heals all allies for 10% of the amount purified within 25 yards.
Sustain - Persevering Ox - Your âGift of the Oxâ and âSpirit of the Oxâ chance increases equal to double your current stagger percentage and the effectiveness of âHealing Spheresâ is increased equal to half your stagger percentage (ie. 200% increased chance at 100% stagger with 50% more healing - both tapering down to 0% at 0 stagger).
Damage:
Passive - Purifying Punches - Keg smash and RSK now cleanse staggered damage and add that damage to the ability. RSK cleanses 6% and Keg smash cleanses 2% per target, max of 5 targets.
Activate - She Sheng Qu Yi - replace weapons of the order - 1.5m cd. The monk takes more stagger damage from all sources by 20% but increases their damage by 5% per 10% of their health in staggered damage. Lasts 15 seconds.
(ie. 10m HP BrM Monk - 5m incoming damage @ 70% stagger = 3.5m staggered + 20% from SSQY = 4.2m staggered and 1.5m received unstaggered | passive damage increase of 20% as 4.2m is 42% of the 10m health pool @ 5% damage increase per 10% of health. 5 x 4 = 20).
This ability is mostly to increase damage and helps the BrM build higher stagger for the other affected interplay but technically it is a trade off and the monk will take more damage during this window (unless paired with Inconceivable, which would pop off).
Tell me if Iâm being dumb and if the above wouldnât work towards / fix current BrM issues.
