Hunters mark.
Double Tap.
Double Tap being on the global really makes your rotation super clunky when you need a double tapped rapidfire to regen your focus.
Hunters Mark is basically throw it up on the target an never switch.
10 Likes
not that i disagree with you but here is the reason why it will not happen. People will macro both skills into pretty much every ability so that you no longer have to think about it. In fact that is how hunters mark was used in the past. With double tap people will macro it into both aimed and rapid fire for the simple fact that it gets immediatly used on cooldown. Granted double tap is best used on aimed shot ONLY in the careful aimed phases and rapid fire at any other time.
1 Like
I know the problem with macroing them into all your abilties, the only one i think that is acceptable would be hunters mark, i cant think of any other class whose damage buff is limited to a global cooldown, and the monk/dh one is actually passively applied with their rotation, doesnt need to be taken as a talent and benefits the entire raid.
I would rather see hunters mark changed into your arcane shots/aimedshots/rapidfire debuff the target with hunters mark, causing them to take 5% more damage from all sources and granting 20 focus upon death.
Only one mark can be up at any time.
Or they can just change it to be 5% damage buff on everything you multishot/aimedshot/arcane shot/rapidfire no limit but grants no focus. this would allow you to hunters mark buff 5% damage for your entire raid on aoe packs and be useful in mythic + dungeons. i feel its time to give a reason to bring hunters. after i watch what other classes can do its kinda sad how they pretty much got to keep their aoe stuns/roots/cc/defensives which are all miles ahead of any hunter spec and then they still pump as much damage as us. its same stuff for pvp, yea in rbgs i can easily out damage boomkins/spriest/multi dotters as a marksman hunter, but all i got for cc/peels is a knock back which is clunky requires me to run up to them and a trap/4 sec cc on a 30 sec Cd that pretty much instant breaks and basically saves the healers from pressure due to removing all their dots.
Double tap i almost always use on rapidfire besides the opener, and i try to use it when under 30 focus, with 1 FF trait double tap rapidfire will easily get you back to 100 focus with 1 cast and most aoe packs i completely overcap even if i started with 0 focus. id just like to not have to premptivly cast doubletap. i feel these 2 abilties coming off GCD would make the spec feel much better.
From a PvP perspective, this is not true. I never put Hunter’s Mark in a macro with anything because I didn’t want to clear it from rogues/feral without purposefully doing so. In other words, I needed that control over the ability so it had it’s own button.
For Double Tap, you would absolutely NOT want to macro it with “whatever”. During opening and closing with Careful Aim, you would want to use it with Aimed Shot. During the middle, you would want to use it with Rapid Fire. If you just macro it to both, you are removing a lot of DPS. In PvP this is even more important. No one who wanted to optimize any part of the game would do this.
I also strongly agree that having Double Tap and Hunter’s Mark on the GCD feels very awkward and jarring.
Back to Hunter’s Mark; In PvE, I agree it was generally just macro’ed. I also agree that most people even in PvP had it macro’ed. The point is, it was a choice to do so, and not doing so allowed for an extra layer of skill. There is a reason to have these things the way they were. The short-sighted belief that there is no depth there, and the subsequent removal of the depth they didn’t see is exactly why people don’t like classes now.
2 Likes
Hunters mark is an interesting one, because if it was off the gcd you could totally use that to snipe targets that are about to die for free focus, because new hunters mark does give 30 focus for being on a killed target. This would probably make hunters mark the default pick for that talent row, I don’t think that gcdless hunters mark would be all that bad for the game like this mind you, i’m just trying to say it’ll be so much stronger if it is left off the gcd.
if they take it off the GCD then i am fine with them removing the focus return portion of it. i feel like the 2nd option would be amazing, allowing hunter mark to just be passively applied by either single target arcane/aimed or maybe allow multishot to apply it, just like vulnerability was in legion, but instead its just a 5% damage boost. right now the current talent feels underwhelming and while it is our best talent in that row, due to nerfs to streamline and lol steady focus being no longer used since you never cast steadyshot.
1 Like
Discussed the problems with GCD over 2 weeks ago. It doesn’t matter, the spec isn’t competitive. MM is hot garbage and it needs fixed.
it is more than competitive, it will be one of the top DPS before the tier is over.
because of scaling BM is dead.
It might do enough damage to do well in a raid situation given one specific build and 6 specific Azerite Traits. That does not make the spec “good” or even OK, and it certainly doesn’t make it fun or intuitive. It just means it can produce the requisite numbers in one area of the game.
Even that I doubt is true, since half the fights likely require two target cleave (I have no idea), the area where MM does less damage than every other spec in the game since even our regular AoE doesn’t work with two targets.
2 Likes
Can’t take you seriously with a 1000 io and having not stepped into BoD. The io I would even forgive as seemingly EVERY other 1400+ io players do NOT invite hunters (especially MM) because you lack utility.
Comparatively, MM DOES NOT work when Mythic + teams comprise DH, Mage, Rogue (or Boomy). You can’t sustain the DPS and you lack utility. The new raid in the first 4 Heroic bosses I’ve done, DOES NOT work well with the mechanics and long casts that are unable to target swap.
Can I burst 40-50-60k? Sure… So what… You can’t sustain it. They nerfed the hell out of our aimed shot and claimed they buffed it by 20%. Going from 230-300k aimed shots back down to 26-80k isn’t a buff, we can just cast it more often because of trueshot.
I’m so SICK of seeing people who don’t know WTF talking about say the spec is fine.
[Champion of the Light] Top All DPS 29k-26k Top MM 20.7
[Jadefire Masters] Top All DPS 24-21k Top MM 17.9
[Grong] Top All DPS 21-20.5k Top MM 19.3
[Opulence] Top All DPS 54-47k Top MM 37k (just lol)
[Conclave of the Chosen] Top All DPS 19.3-17.6k Top MM 16.3
[King Rastakhan] Top All DPS 24.2-20.2k Top MM 18.5
[Mekkatorque] Top All DPS 15.4-14.9k Top MM 15.2, 13.6, 12.8, 12.1 (only 4 )
Stormwall Blockade Top All DPS 20.7-17.8k Top MM 0 parses
^ Do you see a reoccurring theme here? I don’t know WHAT you’re speculating that MM will be top damage. BiS gear right now shows 2 Unerring Vision\1 Focus Fire and 3 Treacherous Covenant. There is LITERALLY NO new trait your going to pick up that changes game play. If you do want to sim high on the couple of fights for single target it’s the same thing, 3 Unerring Vision\In The Rhythm\2 Treacherous.
It’s only going to get worse.
good job proving you dont have a clue what the hell you are talking about. its SCALING MM scales better.
granted using old gear on a gear dependent class is not going to show what will happen. Also its great to show how flat out dumb you are with saying someone who has not been in a raid that has been out 24 hours like you are some method level player when you yourself are garbage.
BM will do less DPS than MM by ilvl 400 its basic math something you dont understand.
Poor guy, you’re on all my posts. Look, go look at where I contrast BiS Mythic gear (415 base) and run the sims.
You’re like a little lost stupid. Run back after you see how it scales.
AfreakinMen
Your auto shot should automatically put hunters mark onto the target and be baseline… my opinion. And KILL SHOT to replace it in the talent tree… (wet dreams)
Double tap is fine way it is.
so wait, you state that MM will suffer because of the fight make up but then you immediately state that you have no clue on what the fight make up is? is that really what just happened there?
not trying to be mean but I have seen you post this lil bit of math (if u want to call it that) on a few threads now. you realize this, and the supplement one you post after it (about your sim with best gear) mean absolutely nothing.
No, I didn’t take it mean. Hopefully you won’t take this mean. That wasn’t math. So reading comprehension is the problem you’re having. Since you don’t understand the information that was presented, explain to me why you are lost and I can correct you.
You’re referring to another post and the sim value of BiS gear is rather alarming. So since it is taking something as a hypothetical in a vacuum, it could be considered a bit alarming when there is a large gap on live. So again, you’re going to have to help me help you understand it since you equate “math” to aggregate data. There’s no math involved.
What you’re quoting me on is (Left side) Top DPS averages on the fight (right side) Top MM DPS for that fight. Not math, facts of the parses produced. I’m not sure what you could argue with that.
Go to warcraftlogs. Open up 2 windows, one with ALL dps (top 10) and the other window Top MM dps. Let’s do it for Mythic parses as it stands for today and I’ll actually do a little math for you.
Champions of the Light :
Top 10 everyone : 40.3 - 35.6k
Top MM : 25.7
Math : 14.6 - 9.9 difference from the BEST MM damage (66.7%-72.2%)
Jadefire Masters :
Top 10 everyone : 29.1- 26k
Top MM : 22.9
Math : 6.2l - 3.1k diff
(78.7%-88%)
Grong :
Top 10 everyone : 26.6 - 24.9k
Top MM : 22.2
Math : 4.4 - 2.7
(83.5%-89.1%)
Opulence :
Top 10 everyone : 50 - 46k
Top MM : 40.8
Math : 9.2 - 5.2
(81.6%-88.7%)
Conclave :
Top 10 everyone : 25.6 - 21.8k
Top MM : 21.1
Math : 4.5 - .7
(82.42-96.8)
King Rastakhan :
Top 10 everyone : 27.1 - 22.6k
Top MM : 21.4
Math : 5.7 - 1.2
(79%-95%)
Mekk :
Top 10 everyone : 19.4 - 17.8k
Top MM : Not represented
Heroic RQ because I’m bored
Champions of Light:
45-41
34
Jadefire:
28.8-27k
21.8
Grong:
27.6-26
24
Opulence:
54.6-51
42.9
Conclave:
23.9-22.6
21.6
King:
28.1-27.1
26.2
Mekk:
20.9-19.5
19.5
Stormwall:
27.8-25.5
22.3
Jaina:
23.1-21.7
19.6
Not exactly. I said MM might suffer, and “likely” will because two target cleave has been a very common theme for a part of many fights in past raids. However, rather than make a blanket statement, “This will happen”, I said I really “have no idea” because I don’t. It was a qualifier on my statement. At the time of that post I had not done anything related to Dazar’alor (it wasn’t even out yet) so it was a perfectly sound statement of supposition based on the past.
1 Like
You’re explaining something to somebody who doesn’t understand concepts and has a comprehension problem.
You made a valid point and in my opinion, addresses the problem of cleave dps.
awww the hunters who seem to know nothing about data and their class are teaming up on me… how cute. im glad I got you all to play nice together.
it was in no way a perfectly sound statement. any moron could google the boss make up of this tier and last tier. it aint that hard, stating that you think something is going to be bad at something based on X fact and then stating you have no clue if X fact even exits is an oxymoron. and yes I understood what you meant. it was just the way you worded it that gave me no choice but to respond.
asking people to judge and make and opinion on 2 data sets is math. not in the general algebraic sense you are used to. but I assure you its math lol