Affliction Going OOM

TLDR: is that Affliction Warlocks can run out of mana very easily when stacking haste because your dps spells consume more mana per second than you regen. This is a major issue because almost every spell costs mana so once you run out, you lose a ton of dps because of missing globals and failing to complete channels. In addition you cannot use abilities such as your kick, wall, movement, or cc.

I’m at 44% unbuffed haste now and it’s extremely easy to run out of mana during prolonged battleground fights. Or even just normal length fights with little downtime between them. It happens in all varities of battlegrounds. Regular bgs, epics, brawls, blitz. The Hotmogu brawl that’s active right now amplifies the problem to the max. The 50% haste buff seems bugged and is giving a lot more than that. I’m at 116% haste with 0.75s global in the brawl starting room. I can deplete my mana in seconds if I try.

In MANY bgs now I’ve literally needed to run away from the fight to drop combat and drink to be able to continue to do damage. This happens in blitz often where teams tend to be more evenly matched. I don’t think there is any other dps spec in the game with this problem (including Demo and Destro).

A huge part of the issue is Drain Soul. The mana it consumes is fixed at 5% for the whole channel despite the tooltip stating it consumes 1% (2500 mana) per second and haste reducing the channel duration. The problem is that with 44% base haste + Nightfall procs, it’s a 1.7 second channel and still consumes 5% mana. This greatly outpaces our passive 1% mana per second regen.

Even if Drain Soul was fixed to cost no mana, there is inherently a design flaw with a 2024 retail dps class being able to match or exceed their innate mana regen (which you have no way to improve). At 44.22% haste, this gives a global of 1.04 seconds. You passively regen 1% mana per second and instant cast spells cost 1% mana. That means if you were to spam instants, you would BARELY regen more than you consume. The issue with this, in Affliction’s case, is that once you use Drain Life a few times (which, by design, costs a ton of mana. 15% per cast) as long as you keep fighting you basically cannot ever use Drain Life again because you regen mana so slowly that it would take forever to actually regen enough to complete a channel. And as I’ve stated in the TLDR, and state again below, almost every spell costs mana so once you’re out you can’t press most of your buttons anymore without afking to regen mana.

This doesn’t just happen in battlegrounds either. I’ve seen streams of multi glad warlocks (Jaz) running out of mana in 2v2. And this could easily happen in PVE as well if you were to suboptimally stack haste past the 2nd DR like I am.

It feels terrible to be missing globals and for channeled spells to end early (Drain Soul) because you’re out of mana. Not to mention being unable to use most of your abilities including your wall, port, gate, and kick. This isn’t classic wow. This problem shouldn’t exist.

I propose that Warlocks (and all other mana using dps specs except Arcane) be updated so no abilities cost mana except for spammable heals (Drain Life) and spammable CC (Fear). This is exactly how Balance Druid is designed right now. In a long fight you should be able to dps forever and still be able to use your defensives and utility spells after depleting your mana from spamming heals or cc.

Also, as a footnote, the current mana costs of spells in general seems to have no real logic behind why one spell costs x mana and another does not. I’ll list some examples below.

Fear costs 12500 (5%) mana while Cyclone, Roots, and Hibernate cost 3000 (1.2%) mana. None have cooldowns so are spammable, yet almost every ability for Affliction costs mana while almost no abilities for Balance do.

Phantom Singularity costs 2500 (1%) mana while Fury of Elune costs nothing. Both abilities are optional instant cast spells from the spec talent trees with a 45 second cooldown.

Mass Entanglement, Ursol’s Vortex, Typhoon, Incapacitating Roar, and Mighty Bash are all free while Shadowfury costs 1% mana, Shadowflame costs 3% mana, Mortal Coil costs 2% mana, and Howl of Terror costs 1.8% mana. All these abilties are optional crowd control spells from the class talent trees.

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You go oom if you spam drain life

That’s intended.

You shouldn’t be able to sit there and drain life forever, that would be broken

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I read 1/4 through that and thought to myself “how much longer does this go?”

Whew

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i did 150m overall in a bg on aff

idt i went below 180k mana

what u talkin bout willis

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This is a terrible thing to happen to Aff locks…so I agree that we should nerf hunters!

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Cleaning up old posts! :slight_smile:

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Honestly buff ret

I tried to thoroughly explain the problem because you wouldn’t assume it could be a thing in modern wow. It’s poor design or an oversight by the devs and should be fixed.

I’m well aware. But if you played Affliction with a lot of haste, or just read the post, then you’d understand that you can go completely oom without pressing Drain Life or even Fear a single time. Your dps rotation alone ooms you.

He is talking about drain soul which is your filler like mind spike for shadow. There is a spec heavily revolved around its use with other talents that make your want to use it as much as you can.

Your probably playing aoe spec not the drain soul spec which is far more single target orientated and way more fun for a lot of people.

Yep. Drain Soul (not to be confused with Drain Life for anyone else reading) is a big contributor to the problem. But not the only problem, as I explain in the first post.

It is the only problem. The three things that oom you at high haste will be fear drain life and drain soul. Fear is fixed by dr’s if your spamming so many fears its probably detrimental to your play. Drain life ooms your because of its defensive benefit so spamming this with 0% haste should still oom you. The last one drain soul still holds the same mana constraints as drain life because before DF all the talents that made drain soul replaced drain life.

The fix to all of this would basically just fix drain soul so the single target burst spec is fixed from the mana constraints, so if you do have that much haste during the brawl you aren’t forced to go the other spec.

It’s really not. Lets just assume Drain Soul no longer costs mana. Now if I oom myself by spamming Drain Life and Fear there is still the major issue of nearly every non-soul shard spell that Affliction / Warlock has costing mana. When you go completely oom you literally are unable to press your wall, port, kick, or your damage spells.

Again comparing to how Balance druid is designed, right now, it doesn’t make sense for Warlock to have this problem. 99% of Balance druid’s attacks and utility cost 0 mana. They can completely oom themselves from spamming Regrowth and never run into the issue of being unable to press their other buttons. Warlock needs to function this way too.

You should be ooming if your spamming fear and drain life. It is the same as warrior ignore pain, mage spell steal and a bunch of other abilities from basically every spec.

Fear is fine because there is a thing called dr and life drain is fine because of how powerful it is.

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I’m not asking not to oom from Drain Life and Fear. It makes sense to have spells that actually drain your mana so at points you actually need to think about conserving your mana for when you need it. I’m asking to not miss globals because I’m oom and to still be able to press my other buttons without having to wait X seconds for my mana to regen.

I hadn’t thought about Ignore Pain potentially creating this same problem but in theory it could. But it’s definitely not the same. Once Affliction goes oom, it takes 100 seconds to reach full mana again IF you go afk and stop casting spells. If arms / fury “oom” themselves with ignore pain it takes what, half a second or a second to be back at full rage? I don’t play warrior so I don’t know, but you get the point I’m making.

Also just quickly looking through the arms / fury talents on wowhead I can see that Heroic Leap, Charge, Storm Bolt, Pummel, Bitter Immunity, Enraged Regeneration, Die by the Sword, Rallying Cry are all free. If you “oomed” yourself with Ignore Pain it looks like warriors can still press the vast majority of their buttons. Edit: forgot to mention why I brought this up. All the equivalent spells that Warlock has cost mana. So when oom you are unable to press them until you wait for mana to regen.

Spell Steal is another that makes sense to cost a bunch of mana so you can’t spam it forever. I’m not asking for these types of spells to not cost mana or be cheaper. I’m asking for Affliction, and ALL other mana using dps specs (except Arcane) to be “fixed” so this problem can’t occur. Most abilities just shouldn’t cost mana. Exactly how Balance Druid is designed right now. There should be a set of spells for each mana dps spec that cost a lot. For Mage that might be Poly and Spellsteal. Druid Regrowth, Cyclone. Warlock Fear, Drain Life.

That is the thing you only need 10-15% of your mana if your not using fear/drain life, which is why if your oom it is because you have done too much of something you shouldnt have having a 5-6 second cool off period which most classes have, boomkin cant cast clone if its oom.

No I’m sorry but that just doesn’t make sense for 2024 retail wow. It’s quite obvious that the devs intend for mana to be used much differently than in classic. Normal dps rotations are not intended to deplete your mana at all (except for Arcane). It’s obviously an oversight / poor design if a scenario can arise where dps have to sit afk while waiting for mana to regen before they can press their buttons. Again I think Affliction is the only spec in the game that this is really a problem for but in theory it can happen to all mana dps with enough haste which is why I’d prefer they fix all of them and not just affliction.

When a boomkin goes oom they can still cast Wrath, Starfire, Moonfire, Sunfire, Stellar Flare, Stampeding Roar, Mass Entanglement, Typhoon, and the plethora of damage spells that generate or spend Astral Power. Because all of these spells cost ZERO mana. These are just some. I’m just giving examples. MOST of Balance’s spells cost zero mana. They do have a few weird random spells with “high” mana costs like Thorns (9000 mana, 3.6%) and Solar Beam (8400 mana, 3.36%). The mana costs for these two spells makes no sense to me and seems like they were just pulled out of a hat at random. They already have long cooldowns, there is no point in them also having some arbitrary mana cost.

This is the polar opposite of Affliction. MOST Affliction & Warlock spells cost mana. Including all your main damage spells like Agony, Corruption, Unstable Affliction, Drain Soul, Phantom Singularity, Haunt, Summon Darkglare, Soul Rot, Unending Resolve (wall), Spell Lock (kick), Demonic Circle (port), Mortal Coil, Shadowfury. Again, just some examples. Nearly every spell Warlock has also costs mana unless it generates or spends soul shards.

Your normal rotation will never deplete your mana my friend, i have been trying to tell you this multiple times, if you spam fear and drain life too much that you go oom and cant use anything IT IS A SKILL ISSUE.

The draw back for being extremely tanky and having access to amazing mobility it was decided in legion to be mana, which is still a thing now.

Where do you think I got this idea from? Do you think I’m just making it up? I have gone oom countless times in battlegrounds and had to flee from the fight to drink because of it. This is why I made this post.

I’ll record a battleground later and prove it if thats what it takes. You can EASILY, EASILY oom with this much haste without EVER pressing Drain Life or Fear a single time.

Or drain soul*, which is problem here. Playing a very specific affliction spec you can go oom by using abilities that should make you go oom.

If you want you can play the aoe rot build that doesn’t even use nightfall and the others and i can guarantee you never go oom.

Why should pressing Drain Soul make you go oom? Please explain to me how that makes any sense, at all.

Additionally, why is it okay that once Drain Soul has depleted my mana completely that I cannot press 90% of my other abilities without afking (wasting globals) while waiting for my mana to regen?