I just saw the new changes for 12.1. I don’t think it makes the spec more interesting by further reducing the complexity.
I.e. if play Templar and press Wake of Ashes then I have to have 5 holy power so I can use ability.
Making it easier by reducing the amount of holy power required doesn’t make the spec any better it just simplifies it, up to a point where it gets boring.
The same applies to the Art of War changes. If spec is reduced in complexity so far that it is longer engaging then it just makes it boring to play the game.
The 12.0 changes already brought part of that by i.e. removing Hammer of Wrath outside of wings which brought it’s own issues.
Now I know that since these patch notes are posted in public that they will happen more or less unless there’s enough feedback,i.e. it will happen most likely but still I don’t want just stay quiet.
PS: I post with a low level char as I’m an EU player.
HoL going to 3 HoPo standardizes all spender costs.
Why? Who was asking for this? It would be equally baffling to raise the cost of Divine Storm/Final Verdict to 5 HoPo.
I am partly worried this change is being made to reign in the potential power of the 2 set bonus giving more free spenders… and HoL as is may be too strong if it was cast for free too often.
(But also, why sacrifice cool factor on HoL in exchange for a temporary set bonus that people will forget in a season?)
I really hope we get feedback in early enough to help Blizz make changes
IMHO it lowest the skill ceiling it leaves everyone on the level of the lowest level possible.
There are always talents that work better or worse depending on the spec I don’t think that’s an issue. It’s possible to balance that out by making other talents stronger with other talents.
I wish the fix Healing Hands so it can be used for off-healing again. If I heal I can’t do dps, that was a fair trade off.
Yes, this mod makes no sense. It’s the fact that you load it so much and that it has that animation and that damage that makes it special and enjoyable to play. It’s a senseless change.
maybe this is not the thread for my question but since it is the latest, I might get better luck in here. Googling it did me no good. At 489 ilvl as a ret paladin, optimized for single target in temrs of your build, what number should you be looking at? Sustained single target dps ? Not an opener no variables like raid party etc. You and a target dummy. Thank you in advance.
Putting aside the “why” are they doing it for a second here.
How does it functionnaly changes anything to what we need to do?
We still want to BoJ first going in for the expurg buff and judgement is supposed to be applied by HoL already.
If anything they added a way to mess it up, that’s not really a simplification and more of change for the sake of change.
It only simplifies Ret in a manner of how you would explain its spenders to someone else.
“Ret spender all cost 3 HP”…
And to circle back to “why”…
A head scratcher for sure, no one asked that and it serves no real purposes one way or another.
But it’s not more complicated or simpler, it’s just different for no reason.
And to quote Hashi.
What is simplified with that ?
I don’t think it’s the right word to describe what they are doing here
Those changes aren’t made in a vacuum, contextually there’s an objective and what they are going for actually makes sense with the Tier set.
Apex Talent: Light Within (Rank 1) now has an additional effect – Art of War and Righteous Cause can now each accumulate an additional time.
Art of War has been updated – Now increases Blade of Justice damage by 80% (was 150%)
Tier set power for reference
2-Set Bonus: Divine Purpose has an additional 10% chance to activate and consuming it grants Divine Power, increasing Holy damage done by 10% for 12 seconds.
4-Set Bonus: Consuming Divine Purpose with Divine Storm causes your next Final Verdict to be free and unleash Divine Arbiter at its target, dealing Holy damage and Holy damage to enemies within 8 yards.
We’re going into a patch which is gonna see us add spenders to an already locked rotation by increasing the amount of Divine Purpose proc we are getting.
As such, there might be times where we literally just can’t use the procs because of random procs and effects that grant free spenders.
And the more free spenders, the more chances to proc DP in a row, the more time between builders, the more priority we give to Judgement to actually buff these spenders and the less we want to press BoJ.
Add in the buff to CSAA speed which means more passive HP economy and it’s not as easy as just saying they are simplifying it.
They are nerfing the BoJ damage (apex rank 1) from the AoW procs and the Light Within damage as well to emphasize us using judgement when we can instead.
They seem to want to avoid creating competing priorities which result in friction.
Friction isn’t always bad but it really depends on how it is done, and here they might have a point to be honest.
It brought no issues whatsoever.
HoW was a dead spell with no actual situations in which you prioritized it even on its supposed niche of execution phases.
It was virtually the same spell as Judgement with none of the part that made it good.
You would only use it when you had literally nothing else to press.
And it was always going to be like that because a “builder execute” is an oxymoron.
You can’t have a strong execute spell on a builder where it’s damage budget is limited by the spenders.
The spenders will always have to hit harder which means HoW was never gonna act and feel like an execute
Now it has a purpose and a role, one of the best change that came in Midnight.
The one thing I’ll say is this, it should have transformed Judgement in to HoW on low health target still regardless of Wings.
The nerf in damage is definitely because of the tier set.
The HP change is just a meaningless compensation.
They may very well change it back afterward.
I don’t think it’s beyond them anymore to do this type of seasonal shifts on abilities but it really should have just been the damage.
I’m just going to be so t i r e d after season 2 if they go,
“We heard your feedback! You guys all like HoL as a higer costing, bigger hitting spell, we’re reverting the S 2 changes!”
If the goal is to simplify things and reduce friction, partly by giving us a mess of free spenders, I am somewhat worried we will lose some of the “oomph” that spenders are supposed to have.
Blizz has run the wrong way in the past and needed to reset the builder/spender economy before.
…I almost wish they would just incorporate the “overcap spender” talent Prot has where you can imcrease the dmg of spenders by spending more than 3 HoPo (now that Ret will have 3 cost spenders for everything).
You misunderstand me, they are modulating HoL for this season specifically because of the tier.
We should let them know putting it at 3hp is meaningless though and to keep it at 5.
Because that type of flip-flop would be confusing to people half following.
If they just want to put it at 3 forever though it’s another story, Prot HoL is at 3 so it might be some kind of “consistency” idea as well.
They are doing it right now.
CSAA speed buff is certainly something to behold…
It means more passive HP which means more spenders, more AoW proc which means more HP and more spenders, DP increase proc with a free spender mechanic added on top which means more spenders…
We might be taking Empyrean power in single target because “more spenders”, I wonder how much space there’s going to be for BoJ.
I don’t want to see Undermine tier set feel to comeback.
Depending on how GCD locked we already are with new tier set and procs, we may be in situations where we are back to spender spam - we are going to have a buffed CSaa on top of that?
…Obviously, this is early beta, and things are subject to change - but if they do the Undermine thing where we are spamming spenders without really needing to gen HoPo, then spenders need to get nerfed, then our profile and HoPo economy is wack, then yadda yadda, …early rework for Ret
Currently we look to be both GCD locked, and drowning in HoPo gen.
Gear inflation = stats inflation which includes haste, which increase CSAA passive HP generation through faster attacks on top of the lesser penalty.
Which in turn increase the number of procs of AoW we get, which are further increased by crit, which will be higher because of gear inflation.
Haste also reduce the CD of our abilities which makes them available faster.
The tier increasing the procs of Divine Purpose means more free spenders, which creates more opportunities for Divine Purpose procs, which means less GCD on builders and builders always being ready to be used.