12.1 paladin feedback thread

In Development Midnight: Curse of Ula'tek Public Test Realm
1

i noticed a general lack of feedback threads for all effected classes, so i figured i should make one for paladin in general. im not entirely sure this thread will stay relevant but it would be nice if we keep all paladin feedback in one thread.

as per usual, please be constructive with your feedback and dont derail the thread.

feedback should be understandable, constructive and clear. we should tell them what we dislike about this and what we would rather see instead.

2 Likes
2

Feedback for the holy changes:

…

…

…

I assume those are coming in a later PTR update.

4 Likes
3

im very pleased with the attention prot is getting this patch, it sorely needed help but due to the extensiveness of the changes. i cant really comment on them without more time to look at it

this also applies to ret as well, but unlike prot. the changes dont really do much to change the spec fundamentally and thus i can kinda explain my feelings/likes/dislikes about the spec as a whole after some time testing it.

overall i really dont like how we’re moving away from our burst spike niche in favor of a consistent profile. we already tried this on df and beyond, it didnt really go well and made ret extremely hard to balance. always making the spec succeed in lowtier gameplay while being underwhelming in highend gameplay. until the mid season buff that makes the spec decent in highend but overwhelmingly oppressive in lowend.

specs need to have skill ceilings, having a burst niche is a good enough skill ceiling for players to work towards. to me its the best profile for any dps spec to have especially with the amount of bosses that have damage amp windows.

  1. i really like how lights within can accumulate its procs one extra time, this is huge qol and i appreciate it. heck its the reason why improved blade of justice was liked during its time in df and tww. having wiggle room to not waste procs is always welcome
  2. i changes to aow and boj as a whole kinda puts the spec in a position where you dont want to use procs as herald of the sun. i understand you want to smooth out the spike damage but this isnt the way to do it. please revert this.
  3. avenging wrath shouldnt be nerfed, please revert this.
  4. i feel like templar strikes and crusading strikes will never be able to coexist. buffing templar strikes repeatedly runs the risk of having it stronger than spenders and still be weaker than crusading strikes. rn we have alot of holy power generation due to crusading strikes and the nature of herald of the sun. csaa should be reverted back to its original attack speed and we should curb some of the free holypower or procs the spec has. because rn you really dont care about holypower as a resource at all.
  5. the divine toll nerf should be reverted. we shouldnt be afraid of burst. this is an iconic ability and it should remain powerful. i would even say that the divine toll talent in templars hero tree should be baseline.
  6. templar shouldnt be nerfed like this. hammer of light was already doing very little damage and now costing 3 holypower it only adds to the resource issue. i understand this was asked for by the community, but i dont think templar should have eaten a 30% nerf for it.

herald of the sun feedback, i know this is beating a dead horse but this has to be said. right now with the new tierset, you are heavily encouraged to play herald of the sun. having 2 guaranteed procs of the tierset per minute is huge. herald also ahs a huge opener that is pretty degenerate. it basically boils down to

boj, es, wake, wings ds, fv, hammer, ds fv, hammer, ds fv, hammer. due to the amount of hopo your generating passively and thus being wasted. not to mention you have to find a way to fit blade of justice as a button so expurg doesnt r un out. not to mention the instruments of retribution bug that kills your burst window as a whole when someone dies because of the bug that makes it turn of hammer of wrath when it procs. not to mention herald is very clearly made for holy paladin and not for ret. i understand a rework for the hero tree isnt realistic in this timeframe especially without stepping on holys toes. but heres some changes i think would benefit the hero tree for ret

  1. dawnlight should be more than just a dot, ret has had a very weird history with dots and herald was supposed to represent that. sadly it just falls flat.
  2. luminosity should have the same crit values for ret as it has for holy
  3. endless gleam shouldnt extend the dot for either spec. dot extensions dont really do anything but makes sure that the dot is weak. it should do something else
  4. blessing of anshe should increase the damage of judgement more
  5. sunsear should also effect final verdict and the dot should be a % of damage done or shoudl always appear on every spender used not crits
  6. second sunrise shoudl have the same values as the holy version and should include final verdict.
  7. suns avatar should be active on wings again. there was no reason to move it away from wings activation. it should also do more. have each spender done on your dawnlight targets make the dawnlight explode/pulse with damage or healing during wings.
1 Like
4

Maybe im stupid but someone refresh me. Are they buffing Crusading Strikes AGAIN?! Its already ahead as it stands and they just KEEP buffing it. Im so tired of being forced to use this AA builder playstyle. It shouldnt need buffed by another 15% , im sure thats to compensate for Skyfury changes but doesnt the tooltip already say that its not suppost to benefit from that anyways? so why the buff? sounds like it was bugged (go figure) and too strong? Idk if theyll ever be able to balance it, but the original plan for ret going into MN was to make our HP economy more predictable. CSAA kinda flies in the face of that. If you dont track your swings you waste HP alot. Doesnt sound “predictable” imo. Idc if CSAA is in the game but holy crap id love for it not to be so friggin dominant for one season since its inception.

1 Like
5

Looking for the HPal thread :eyes:

Huh, well how about that. You would think Blizz would have learned at least something from S1? Nothing though, they didn’t learn a single thing? Well then.

1 Like
6

Begging Blizzard for some HPal communication.

Class is in desperate need of talent buffs/overhaul.
Our healing profile is still entirely based on spenders, Shock, and beacons.
Stuff like Veneration, Saved by the Light, Glistening Radiance, etc. are a complete joke.
Even our hero talent stuff under-performs with Dawnlight barely doing anything and Sun’s Avatar now being useless since the Dawnlight dump from wings got removed.

4 Likes
7

I’m a fan of CSSA so this patch is music to my ears. Holy power generation will feel really smooth.

1 Like
8

There’s way to much holy power generation

3 Likes
9

Prot Paladin changes are fine but we have two major issues and a questionable one?

  1. The new talents are great but we have no points to spare to take them. Now we have to drop something like Final Stand to take Spellwarding.

  2. Sentinel duration nerf is a step back for a number of reasons. It’s great that we are finally addressing the damage vs tankiness price for picking Sentinel though.

  3. Kind of ties in with the above: Nerfing Templar while Lightsmith is already the go to Hero Talent choice for M+ is questionable. Reflection of Radiance already allows Lightsmith higher uptime on Wings/Sentinel and nerfing Sentinels Duration and Templar’s output is going to make that gap worse.

1 Like
10

I like to play GCD locked so I would rather have too much than not enough. It also makes it easier to throw out a WoG here and there.

11

You know, if you’re going to parrot a Yoda video, you should probably give him credit.

1 Like
12

you are gcd locked with csaa.

there is alot of hopo for some wogs already.

1 Like
13

Essentially GCD locked with the right stats, talents, etc. Either way, more holy power = more spenders and less fillers. Some players don’t like the feel overflowing resources. Some don’t care as long as they can hit their buttons more. I’m firmly in the second camp.

14

Nothing I said shouldn’t be uncommon prot paladin knowledge. I’ve regularly discussed my problems with Sentinel vs Wrath damage and tankiness swings in the Paladin discord, twitter, and elsewhere. RoR and Sentinel uptime is also a regular topic in discord. I also don’t watch Yoda’s videos like that. I didn’t even know he had a video out on the current PTR changes. Don’t be weird.

Edit: I decided to look at it because now you had me curious and Yoda goes into way more specifics than I do. How did I parrot anything by talking about the most common Prot Paladin concerns? Like I said, don’t be weird.

4 Likes
15

prot palla pvp sick this season will it continue

16

I’m fine with CSAA, once you hit a certain amount of haste the dead zones tend to disappear. I like having that bit of extra time to breathe, anyway. Frees up mental bandwidth to focus on healing and other utility skills. Would be nice if we could go back to dealing Holystrike damage with it though, via the original Blades of Light talent. Synergizes with our Mastery and just feels better from a class fantasy perspective.

17

You have ? Name doesn’t ring a bell, and I’m pretty active there.

You parroted a Youtuber then logged into an alt account to like your own post. Whose the weird one ?

18

Hopefully Hpal didn’t get any changes because it’s getting a soft redesign. :slight_smile:

Hpal feels like it doesn’t have its own unique identity/experience as a healer.

  • It’s a fun experience to cast Totems on a Shaman, to have the totems heal while casting other spot heals, utility, or damage.
  • It’s a fun experience to cast HoTs as a Druid, to have the synergies between the spells such as Swiftmend, and to be able to shift forms, cast utility, and damage while the HoTs heal.
  • On a Pirest, it’s a fun experience to cast DPS Smites and offensive Penances to see allies be healed with casted damage.
  • On a Evoker its a fun experience to Hover, to be able to cast while moving, to get into a position to cast a stationary Empowered ability.
  • etc…

Continuing the discussion from Midnight: Curse of Ula’tek PTR Development Notes:

It feels like they are trying to solve this issue momentarily by giving us a 4-Piece Set Bonus that expands how Infusion of Light works, mainly with Judgment.

However, waiting X months for players to get their 4 piece, just so they can feel like a somewhat “Finished Design” is not …. great… :sweat_smile:

Issue 1: Hpal is just a worse version of Restoration Shaman

Feedback

As a PTR, I’d encourage anyone to test out a Restro Shaman and set up their bars as similar as they can to Paladins;

  • Holy Shock = Riptide
  • Flash of Light = Healing Wave
  • Holy Light = Chain Heal
  • Word of Glory = Unleashed Life
  • Judgement = Flame Shock
  • SotR = Lava Burst
  • HoJ = Cap Totem
  • Freedom = Wind Rush Totem
  • Holy Bulwark = Healing Surge Totem
  • Ascendance/Healing Tide = Avenging Wrath
  • Aura Mastery = Spirit Link Totem
  • Earth Shield = Beacon of Light/Faith
  • Etc…

It’s not going to be an exact 1 to 1 comparison, but its what I’ve found to be the ‘closest’ version to Holy Paladin. Even the Hero Talents having a bit of similar design with Passive Farseer = HotS and Totemic = Lightsmith.

The synergies between Rip Tide, Tidal Waves, Healing Stream Totem, Unleash life, and even Spirit Walkers Grace, ***is something Hpal really lacks.

Holy Power abilities do not compare by any measure.

Issue 2: Not having CS, Judgement and Hammer of Wrath as their own unique Abilities.

Feedback:
  • Judgement and Hammer of Wrath not being their own separate Unique Abilities feels like it limits the toolkit too much, especially with Holy Bulwark replacing Divine Toll. (adding to the reduction of abilities)
  • The merging of Judgement and Hammer of Wrath does not feel like it had an significant impact, and hasn’t added any depth to the game.
  • I would love to have Crusader Strike back, just to reinforce the “Battle-Healer Identity,” to remind myself that being in melee is important on Paladins for X reason.
  • As I’ve said many times, Divine Toll should not be a Class Ability, and should be replaced with a 20-30 sec cooldown Hammer of Wrath. (Necrolord’s Hammer)

Issue 3: Lack of Synergy and Depth to Holy Power Spenders

Feedback

  • Holy Shock, Infusion procs, and Word of Glory all blur in the same spell, gameplay-wise.

    While they technically work differently, the actual player experience is often:

    • “Ally takes damage → press instant heal.”

    This doesn’t really create a compelling battle-healer fantasy. Compared to Disc Priest converting DPS into healing, or Mistweaver maintaining healing through their melee combat.

    Holy Paladin mostly just alternates between different flavors of instant healing spells while standing in melee range.

Continuing the discussion from Midnight: Curse of Ula’tek PTR Development Notes:

  • Ret;
    • Templar’s Verdict → Final Verdict
    • WoG
    • Divine Storm
  • Holy
    • WoG → __________
    • SotR
    • Light of Dawn
  • Prot
    • SotR → ___________
    • WoG → Blessed Word
    • ______

Holy Power Spenders for the Class feels like a bit of a mess, but speaking in terms of Holy Paladin right now, it would be nice if Word of Glory got upgraded via the Holy Spec Tree, into an improved version.

  • Dawnlight
  • Eternal Flame
  • Scared Shield
  • etc….

Issue 4: Beacons and the Quantity > Quality of AoE Healing

Feedback
  • Something that Paladins as a Class struggle with currently, is the abundance of repetitive talents in the Class Tree.
    • Stat Upgrades
      • Obduracy
      • Sanctified Plates
      • Holy Aegis
      • Seal of Might
      • etc…
    • Mobility
      • Unbound Freedom
      • Divine Steed
      • Cavalier
      • Lead the Charge
      • Obduracy
      • Blessed Calling
      • etc…
    • Splash Healing
      • Lightforged Blessing
      • Golden Path/Selfless Healer
      • Lightbearer
      • Afterimage
      • Brought to Light
      • etc…

Holy Paladins have a Unique problem where:

  1. Beacon of Virtue replaces Beacon of Light/Faith
  2. Too much uncontrollable/unreliable splash healing

It would be nice if we lost a few sources of that uncontrollable healing with a consolidation of Talents in our Class Tree, such as Lightforged Blessing and Golden Path combining or sharing a choice node.

And if we lost Beacon of Virtue and gain a new AoE healing spell that aided in the unique identify fantasy of Hpal.

Issue 5: Lack of a 1-2min Utility Spell in the Holy Spec Tree

Feedback
  • The lack of utility on Paladins (and Priests) feel really bad in comparison to these other healers currently.
  • Whether this is a Paladin/Priest issue, or a Druid/Monk/Shaman issue is up to the developers of course, but the Homogenization of the other Healers shifting more towards paladins with Beacon and Freedom copies, without Paladins gaining a Root, Knock back, Vortex, etc… in return has felt like Paladins bring less tools to the group.
  • Because Holy Paladins work in a slightly backwards design from these other healers, gaining our Powerful Defensive spells in the Class Tree due to Prot and Ret. It would be nice to gain a 1-2min cooldown utility spell in our Holy Tree.
    • Beacon of Light/Faith = Symbiotic Relationship, Life Bind, and Earth Shield
    • Blessing of Freedom = Stampede, Zephyr, and Wind Rush Totem
    • __???___ = Vortex, Landslide, and Earthgrab Totem

We need some checks and balances of Healer utility. :slight_smile:

Issue 6: Revamp of Herald of the Sun into something similar to Chronowarden, Frostfire, or Keeper of the Grove

Feedback
  • Herald of the Sun is not a very strong fantasy for Paladins and feels like it needs a complete redesign from the ground up.
  • In gameplay, Dawnlights feel like a improved version of Eternal Flame with a cooldown restriction, not something that enhances our overall gameplay.
  • The Side talents offer very little in terms of depth.
    In addition;
  • WoG feels like it needs to be upgraded via the Holy Spec Tree, like mentioned above. Not sure how much Eternal Flame and Dawnlights may be restricting that.
  • Sun’s Avatar creates more “Uncontrollable Healing” like mentioned above.

I don’t have the tools to give an answer to this obviously, but I would love a more satisfying experience of adding Flame/Radiant spells to our baseline kit so that these abilities do a better job of standing out on their own.

Issue 7: Slight Revamp of Lightsmith

Feedback
  • Obviously not a fan of Divine Toll, Holy Prism and Holy Bulwark as Paladin Cooldowns. I think these abilities are not a very good step in the “Fantasy Forward” approach. There’s a very little rewarding feeling when pressing these abilities.
  • In addition, as mentioned above, a lot of uncontrollable pad/splash healing that further cripples the experience of AOE healing on Holy Paladins.

If these were Greater Blessings, such as Kings → Light, and that synergized with the rest of our kit, like Blessed Calling, etc… Then I think this tree would be alright.

But because this is trying to expand on a niche (Lightforged Draenei) fantasy to Paladins, it should be more noticeable and ‘over the top’ like Surging Totem is for Shaman. :slight_smile:

Issue 8: Slight revamp to the Spec Tree

Feedback

  • The Holy Paladin spec tree could use a bit more Developer guidance and thematic cohesion, especially around the Avenging Wrath section of the tree.

    Right now, the several Avenging Wrath related talents seem to push different playstyles, but the tree doesn’t clearly communicate what the intended gameplay designs are supposed to be.

    Some talents seem to support a caster-focused healer style, while others lean into that melee battle-healer gameplay, but the connections between them can feel scattered rather than purposefully structured while leveling/playing.

As a player, I’d much rather Holy Paladin have a clear intended and engaging playstyle — even if it’s more specialized — than a Spec Tree full of small passive talents that feel bland or interchangeable.

If the battle-healer identity is what makes Holy Paladin unique and memorable. Leaning harder into that fantasy with stronger gameplay direction would feel far more satisfying than spreading power across many low-impact modifiers that don’t meaningfully change how the spec plays. :smiley:

TL:DR

  1. Holy Paladin needs a more distinguishable Healer Identity/Experience, with tools to support it.
    • Healing Mechanic wise, it just feels like a Resto Shaman with less Tools :frowning:
      In the meantime….
  2. The Class Tree talents need to be consolidated with a better “Fantasy Forward” Approach.
    • Too many Stat, Mobility and Splash Healing talents scattered throughout the trees
  3. Divine Toll and Holy Prism need a Redesign
    • A refresh/modernization of our cooldowns would be appreciated!
  4. The Holy Tree needs a slight layout Revamp.
    • Synergetic Modifiers need to be easier to find/follow throughout (Avenging Wrath)
  5. Holy Power Spenders (WoG) need an update/modernization
    • Spenders need a bit more consistent, understandable approach across all 3 specs
  6. Beacon of Virtue needs to be removed and a new AoE heal given to Holy Paladins
    • Could synergize with LoD,but we do need something to modernized our AoE healing
  7. The Holy Spec Tree needs a 1-2min Cooldown Utility Spell
    • Or the Healing Kit and the Utility Kit of Healers needs a Checks and Balances Pass
  8. Lightsmith needs a little bit more flavor, less splash healing.
  9. Herald of the Sun needs a complete redesign for Holy and Ret
    • Someone with better tools than I can propose something, I’d just like to see the Flame/Radiant effects be more emphasized like Chronowarden and Forstfire.

Holy Paladin no longer has their uniquely identifiable gameplay experience and too much of our gameplay loop feels artificially tied to Judgment in ways that don’t meaningfully reinforce any fantasy.

If Holy Paladins are losing their cooldowns, and other healers are becoming better at spot healing, tank support, and passive healing transfer effects (like Beacons), then Holy Paladin also needs stronger HoT and AoE tools for these modernized times. :sweat_smile:

3 Likes
19

Hey, sorry to interject here, but depending on the content, you were probably not seeing an offensive penance. If you did it was most likely to spread Shadow Word: Pain.

The damage from our penance this season was objectively low, added with the Atonement nerf, offensive penance was not a good idea in most cases.

All that said I wish y’all luck on getting the changes you are hoping for!

20

Wanted to see if you were so invested and weird enough to check the likes on a WoW forum post. I liked it on a character named ‘Jovelite’ I didn’t even hide it but you took the bait. Really suggest you stop being weird.

I posted about the Devs waiting until 12.1 to delete Sentinel on 5/8/26 in the prot discord. Do I make any claims that people stole my take for their videos? No that’s stupid. Besides. If you were active in the prot discord you would know not only were the things I said commonly talked about topics, there is also a 12.1 bug and undocumented changes list. Yoda doesn’t talk about any of that stuff in his video, so it’s as if he’s not the ultimate source of Prot Paladin information.

Look. I’ve played a Prot Paladin since Burning Crusade. Literally the first thing I did when the PTR opened was check if we had the talent points for the new talents. I was already dropping Final Stand in raid this current tier so that’s why I mentioned it as an option. Everything else I said is obvious Prot Paladin stuff. I’m not going to reply to you further because you are derailing the thread and you’re weird.