12.1 changes

Classes Monk
1

What are your thoughts on this? I don’t like the WW changes at all and I absolutely don’t understand the nerf to Conduit when almost no one plays it. This makes me feel like it’s going to be even harder to get into M+ as a WW with these changes.

MONK

  • Chi Transfer now causes Touch of Death to heal you for 60% of damage it deals (was 50%).

  • Vigorous Expulsion increases Expel Harm’s healing by 6% (was 5%).

  • Brewmaster

    • Stagger reduction from Staggering Strikes increased by 25%.

    • Spirit of the Ox chance to generate a healing sphere increased by 20%.

    • Celestial Brew and Celestial Infusion absorb increased by 25%.

    • Awakening Spirit’s maximum absorb value increased by 25%.

    • Vital Flame heals for 50% of Fire or Nature damage dealt (was 40%).

    • The following buffs are now tracked in the Cooldown Manager: Fuel on the Fire, Hot Potato, Scorched, Crackling Jade Lightning, and August Blessing.

  • Mistweaver

    • Developers’ notes: We’re making a few adjustments to Mistweaver Monk with the intent of incentivizing Mastery as a more viable secondary stat and shifting some throughput out of Spinning Crane Kick and into Ancient Teachings.

    • New Talent: Vital Expenditure – Soothing Mist’s healing is increased by 300%, but its mana cost is increased by 200%. Choice node with Dancing Mists.

    • All healing reduced by 3%.

    • Mastery: Gust of Mist healing increased by 50%.

    • Spinning Crane Kick damage decreased by 15%.

    • Way of the Crane now transfers 280% of damage done (was 340%).

    • Jadefire Teachings now increases Ancient Teaching’s transfer amount by 320% (was 270%).

  • Windwalker

    • Developers’ notes: We are making a few adjustments to Windwalker’s damage profile to reduce the gap between their steady-state damage and high-end burst capabilities.

    • Melee auto-attack damage increased by 30%.

    • Zenith Stomp damage reduced by 30%.

    • Blackout Kick damage increased by 50%.

    • Tiger Palm damage increased by 200%.

    • Dual Threat damage increased by 30%.

    • Weapon of Wind now increases damage during Zenith by 5% (was 10%).

    • Tigereye Brew now increases Critical Strike damage by 5%/10% (was 10%/20%).

    • Vivify healing increased by 25%.

    • Hero Talents

      • Conduit of the Celestials

        • Celestial Conduit damage reduced by 25%.

        • Temple Training increases the damage of Fists of Fury and Spinning Crane Kick by 30% (was 10%).

2 Likes
2

Them buffing hybrid healing (classes with a healer/dps spec) by 25% is an insult to the face. DId they think that was enough to buff their survivability? Looks like DHs and DKs are still going to be meta in high keys

3

I don’t hate them switching up our damage profile. Change keeps things fresh, but I’m concerned that they aren’t addressing the primary concerns of WW monks.

No one was complaining about our damage profile. But discussion of our poor survivability is everywhere.

3 Likes
4

Pretty sure it’s just to compensate for the 25% stam buff is all.

5

I doubt anyone will want to use mastery still as a MW if that’s the only change. The SCK nerf will probably just change the threshold where SCK overtakes your tp/bok macro.

Sad they didn’t really do anything to make a caster build a strong contender in M+. No idea what the SooM talent is intended for since the set bonus is:

2-Set Bonus: Rising Sun Kick deals 30% increased damage and Rushing Wind Kick’s healing is increased by 100%.

4-Set Bonus: Rising Sun Kick and Rushing Wind Kick have a chance to cause their next cast to ignore their cooldown and have their mana cost reduced by 100%.

which makes any SooM/CJL focused build even worse in S2 than it was in S1 in all end-game content. Maybe the SooM talent will just be a nice single target heal in general for any build. :man_shrugging: Or maybe it’s intended to pair with spirit font to make that worth using over what people currently spec into?

It will be a nice set for the already current meta specs in M+ and raiding.

2 Likes
7

Honestly if Gusts of Mists got a 100% increase to scaling it wouldn’t make it attractive. It doesn’t do anything useful. It needs a rework not an output increase. Revert it to what it was before or have it increase damage > healing ratios and MWers would be covered in Mastery. It barely goes off.

2 Likes
8

Agree, but if they intend to pair the soom buff talent thingy w/ SF, they should fix or rework SF first.

/shrug

9

The MW changes are pretty tonedeaf so chances are I wont be playing my MW s2, if I even play at all with how bad the rest of the game is currently going.

SCK spam is still going to be a thing

Mastery buff is boring and not really that useful still compared to other stats. ( stuff we have pointed out like 4-5 years ago when they were pushing the spec and mana tea to work better with crit )

Lack of alternative playstyle additions like they promised in the bluepost early midnight alpha means s2 will probably still be spam sck to win focused for m+, which is boring/degen. I might resub and play my monk if they finally follow through with this promise and give casters/hybrid real hero tree support/tools.

Terrible hero tree balancing and design philosophy and them ignoring them entirely in s2.

25% health + enemy dmg bonus is yet again the funniest and dumbest way to approach the m+ health spike/ping pong health issue. Maybe the 3rd ( or 4th? ) time around they will figure this kind of buff doesn’t work to achieve those goals, but I doubt it. More dps health/DR tools need to be pruned before they can work on enemy dmg profiles and make it “fun” for healers and for us to feel useful without ping pong health ( imo ). The buff to health might make tanks less squish but they fumbled that balancing hard for midnight so I doubt it will be any better. Both tanks and Healers hated the approach to making tank busters bleed related and it just pushed people to roll dwarf and brewm.

No buffs to dmg and no returning of interrupts is meme. This season alone proved that dps cant interrupt.

People being able to ping their health is like the most troll thing they can add for healers. I will only be running groups where I can turn off pings for everyone except me and the tank if this goes live and I decide to resub for s2.

Meh.

1 Like
10

Idk how anyone can heal with sck spam. I ran a bunch of keys earlier, 11,12, and my group was getting clapped. Repeatedly. Then ibput on my 264 tank set and did 10 pit of saron easy. ><

11

Is ‘almost no one’ :smiley:

Can’t quite visualise how the Conduit / Temple Training rebalance will pan out.

Hmm interesting though, a bit more steady damage is welcome as I feel like I’m punching with pillows much of the time then ‘bang’ there’s a spike. (Not as bad as for my ruined and abandoned BM Hunter ‘main’ though). I do enjoy throwing down the big Zenith Stomps, but happy to trade for more consistent damage.

Any improvement on Vivify is welcome !

We shall see. It’s not horrible. I’m finding survivability tolerable as long as I do a LOT of active rolling and leaping, but I guess that’s the class flavour. The one thing with playing WW is I miss having much ranged capability.

12

While mastery is still boring the numbers look like they might be decent just glancing at PTR. On live my mastery does 4.8k tooltip. Putting the PTR new set and a couple mastery trinkets on my ilvl goes up to 315 (still in half S1 gear) and I still have non-mastery jewelry but my mastery tooltip is 12k and gusts heals me for 14-15k per gust (no resplendent mist).

A crane build will be doing 2 gusts per RSK which they will do a lot of between resets, set and TFT. Invoke Chi-Ji with higher mastery might also be interesting.

Maybe haste/mastery crane specs will be a thing in 12.1?

It might be kind of annoying if different spec variations have different stat priorities.

13

can you do me a favor and tell me how much HP you have for your 15k gusts? Because a 2% heal is not “decent” for the amount of investment you’re suggesting.

14

799k hp at 315 ilvl which is half S1 gear with just the new set vendor stuff on and I put a couple trinkets on (so much for the squish). Not at all geared for mastery specifically since I avoided it like the plague in S1. 0 mastery on rings or amulet so the value I’m showing is mastery with minimal investment into mastery. I’d check it with high mastery but the vendor doesn’t have much mastery gear and I didn’t feel like crafting a bunch of stuff to try it.

You also get two gusts per RSK.

The RSK itself also does more healing because of mastery due to the talent morning breeze, so you’re getting more than just the gust value in a crane spec. You’re also tossing out another 3 half-gusts during invoke Chi-Ji for every kick.

If mastery was the focus of the build you might take resplendent mist for a 30% chance to more than double the gust as well.

As a comparison in the same gear, vivify does 25k healing.

If you spec into Amplified Rush, gust does 27k non-crit on a RM cast or 55k if you spec into resplendent and also get a proc.

RSK ancient teaching does ~170kish non-crit (as celestials, it would do more as MoH)

Shei fully speced into single target 130k zero clouds

Although double checking that time the gusts were around 13k non-crit which was closer to the tooltip value. I may have had some consumables on or some temporary buff when I tested it the first time.

Inner compass kept making the tooltip number fluctuate but switching to MoH to avoid going insane, 669 rating gives a gust tooltip of 11,571. Taking trinkets off that have mastery and no int, 402 rating is a 8,581 gust. RSK tooltip doesn’t change with mastery but on a dummy it was 36-37k non-crit with trinkets and 33-34k without.

If they add more vendor stuff later or someone does the math and/or crafts PTR gear you can get a better idea of what a gust will be in full S2 mythics focusing on actually gearing for mastery.

If spin to win is still super strong even at lower target counts it doesn’t really scale as well with mastery as RSK so maybe you’d still value mastery last if you’re trying to maximize SCK. The set bonus is all about RSK though and RSK is the best scaling ability with mastery. I wouldn’t even consider mastery with a caster spec, though I wouldn’t consider a caster spec with the current S2 set bonus anyway.

1 Like
15

This was only done to account for the health raise. This isn’t in turn a buff.

1 Like
16

What in the world…

Looks like they’re trying balance a self healing spread sheet here by buffing something that has almost no use case but will pad the numbers.

1 Like
17

There’s quite a lot of uses for this talent, especially in super high keys.

18

Classic Monk talent tree

1 Like
19

Ya Ya ya…

Just that the mechanics of touch of death make this a very very very odd place to have a defensive or heal to begin with.

There’s just not a practical use case for, I need a heal, quick find something I can use touch of death on.

Trash usually dies before you’re client is aware you can use it.

On bosses, usually you use it right away in case they live long enough to use it twice.

Never ever used it for healing, always damage. It’s usually coincidence if the need for a heal matches up with the availability to use it, so why buff it?

EDIT: I think the confusion is from a typo in the OP… They meant touch of “Karma” not “Death”.

1 Like
20

Don’t say anything. Let them all FOTM Resto druid. They can find out about MW on their own. Only real MWs and Fistweavers should remain.

1 Like