12 Classes / 4 Covenants

[Tahonto-malganis]

How about class skins? warlock-nercomancer, hunter-dark ranger, etc etc. All the fun of choice and identity without the balancing mess.

[Silvrakruz-wyrmrest-accord]

why does everyone want to take the RPG out of MMORPG, having a sense of player identity is an important factor that we’ve truly lost over the years. There’s no faction pride anymore, there’s no difference between any of the races anymore. Playing classic I know plenty of people playing a human mage or a human priest when gnome and dwarf are just objectively better. All the people complaining about this would rather just be homogeneous blobs where you push builder 5 times, hit spender, repeat. I want my class to be able to do everything that every other class can do rather than wow we have x class in our group so we get access to y utility which is pretty cool.

[Tahonto-malganis]

Balance issues are not fun unless you have a fotm fetish or you like not being invited to groups for your choice.

[Raiimir-stormrage]

@Silvrakruz-wyrmrest-accord

why does everyone want to take the RPG out of MMORPG, having a sense of player identity is an important factor that we’ve truly lost over the years.

No one wants to take the RPG out of MMORPG.

Quite the opposite, we’d like to have the RPG in MMORPG. Ability powers are preventing us from making RPG choices, they’re forcing us to make Mathematical choices.

How is this so hard to grasp ? Some of us WANT to pick a Covenant. We don’t want the overwhelming mathematical advantage of some abilities to pick a Covenant.

[anon85998724]

@Raiimir-stormrage

I wonder what the threads will be like once the casuals that say “this is fine” find out they can’t respec their conduits for 1 week and that their Feral conduits don’t magically swap over to Balance/Resto/Guardian and that their 2nd Soulbind is not yet unlockable…

Except that it doesn’t.

Shadowlands Conduits - Item Level, Ranks, Upgrading, and Replacing

[Felsavior-zuljin (Felsavior)]

@Tahonto-malganis

imagine if you were locked into all your talent choices

I literally never change my talents unless an update forces me to pick a talent again. Not a great argument.

[Tahonto-malganis]

Just because you don’t doesn’t mean the majority doesn’t either. Get your garbage anecdotal logic out of here.

[anon85998724]

@Tahonto-malganis

I’m sorry but it might be “fun” for you but not for people who care how it impacts the balance of the game that they play.

The only people that care about ‘Ultimate balance’ are those that think a RPG is competitive first, character second.

[Raiimir-stormrage]

@anon85998724

Except that it doesn’t.

Ah good to see they swap with specs. But you still have a week CD to swap them. Let’s say I have DPS conduits set as AoE for Mythic+, but now I need more grips for PvP or ST damage for raid, it’s a 1 week lockout. Meaning I have to reserve a soulbind for Raid but the 2nd and 3rd soulbind don’t unlock.

[anon85998724]

@Raiimir-stormrage

Let’s say I have DPS conduits set as AoE for Mythic+, but now I need more grips for PvP or ST damage for raid, it’s a 1 week lockout.

It’s almost if you can’t plan around the same reset day that’s been in the game for fifteen years.

[Tahonto-malganis]

When you play in an MMO rpg, balance is very important. We’re not gods from a single player game. We’re playing with other people and our gameplay choices matter.

[Felsavior-zuljin (Felsavior)]

@Tahonto-malganis

Get your garbage anecdotal logic out of here.

Oh you mean like your entire post?

Nah I think my opinions matter just as much as yours.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Raiimir-stormrage

@Tahonto-malganis

Even if you don’t meta, casual players will be inconvenienced too. Like one of the posers above me said, imagine if you were locked into all your talent choices, casual or not.

It’s not just that, contrast Death’s Due from Night Fae vs Abomination Limb.

How are those even on the same playing field, let alone the same league, let alone the same planet ?

As a Blood DK, why the heck would you ever pick the limb over a permanent damage reduction with a permanent strength increase, seeing how Death and Decay has maximum uptime for Blood. There’s just no comparison vs a 2 minute cooldown limb.

Even Swarming Mist, the venthyr one, at least offers 8 seconds of 10% increased dodge every minute, I’m sure that can compete with a permanent 15% damage reduction… can it ? oh god no, it can’t

These aren’t even “Well this is meta, and this is not, because there’s a slight gap in performance”, this is a monstrous gap in performance.

In beta the night fae tooltip says 1% damage reduction.

And “up to” 15% strength which depends on the number of enemies.

I still expect the strength part to get nerfed though.

[Cäynä-hyjal (Cäynä)]

I’m picking the Covenant I like so I’m not being forced to pick anything.

[Raiimir-stormrage]

@anon85998724

It’s almost if you can’t plan around the same reset day that’s been in the game for fifteen years.

It’s almost like I don’t do activities with 7 days of downtime.

[Holydwarf-kirtonos]

Tying character power to this was one of the worst design decisions I’ve ever seen.

I am a casual player who only will raid heroic, maybe, and do what key gets me my chest at the end of the week - this is most players.

I will main a monk, not a brew monk, but a monk. I plan to play all specs. My choice has reflect all 3 specs, and some are great for some specs and woeful for others. Then some abilities are good for 5 man content, not as good for raiding or solo questing.

I do not feel like I am making a meaningful choice, but being punished for wanting to play all my specs at all levels of content.

I have not bought shadowlands yet, and I may not. This awful system will dictate it for me.

[Tahonto-malganis]

My post is not anecdotal. Having your class abilities WILL cause balancing problems. It happened with priests and their races and it’ll happen again on a much grander scale now.

[anon85998724]

@Tahonto-malganis

We’re playing with other people and our gameplay choices matter.

MMO is irrelevant. The whole selling point of a ‘MMO’ RPG is to play a RPG with your friends.

What you want is to make everything bland and disinteresting so there’s an ‘even’ playing field.

[anon85998724]

@Raiimir-stormrage

It’s almost like I don’t do activities with 7 days of downtime.

It’s almost like you can’t adapt to what you have and need the game to adapt around you.

[Felsavior-zuljin (Felsavior)]

And how does making them talents fix balancing issues?

You’ll have the exact same problem. The only exception is you can swap to what ever is FOTM.

You provide zero solutions to the problem at hand, your only trying to convenience yourself.