I hope Blizz does Zul’aman some justice. The race and zone certainly need some love
Nope, Vereesa disliked Blood Elves when Rhonin was still alive.
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I would say it was needed back then. It was war and honestly, I had zero reason to want anything to do with Vol’jin and would honestly rather let both of them duke it out and have the Alliance deal with whoever is left.
Obviously due to story reason that wasnt going to happen, so getting to at least make Vol’jin beg works for me.
For once I at least agree with Karestae. I am not interested in relitigating a decades old conflict and honestly wish this pre-expansion questline could have been split between the Alliance working with Vereesa and the Horde dealing with Sylvanas. But that is not happening and its clear Blizzard wants all of us to keep fighting over it considering they are making sure these NPC are as incidiary with their words as possible.
I think it’s more accurate to say that Vereesa’s personality on that front was a moving target (book Vereesa, wrath Vereesa and debatably cata Vereesa might as well be different people).
All the Windrunner sisters suffer from multiple personality disorders. Depending on who’s writing them at any given moment.
Than again, Jaina suffers from the same issue. I think it’s blizz not being very goood at writing female characters consistently
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Sure, let’s think about.
Her first experience with the Alliance PC, and Alliance as a whole, is the Alliance PC saving her life. And her response to the Alliance PC who saved her life is ‘I don’t trust you, I wont ever trust you, and I am prepared to kill you.’
Vereesa has a history of conflict and hate. When she talks with the Horde PC she says, ‘I remember you from our conflict, but we will work together.’ No threats. Not even a ‘I will never trust you.’
Their different history actually emphasizes how much more tame Vereesa’s comments are.
Let’s say he guessed what the Alliance was angling for. What should have happened? Realistically he should have put the trade up front instead of ‘go do this for me to earn my trust.’ And barring that, instead of responding with a threat when the Alliance PC asks what the Alliance gets out of it, he should have just said the trade up front. But Blizzard wanted him lording it over the Alliance PC. All of that was setup to make Voljin look like a bada boss.
It is negotiations at its base level. It would be ludicrous to think the Alliance should just run errands for Vol’jin without asking for anything. ‘What do we get’ is a question that should have been expected if nothing was offered.
Well, yes and no.
It was a problem. It was handled poorly.
But, also, you are right it was piling on top of 2 expacs worth of middle finger to the Alliance players. The history made it into a much bigger deal than it would otherwise have been. But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a problem.
Yes. Do you remember what Blizzard’s initial response to the complaints about Vol’jin’s threat? They couldn’t understand the players being upset because they thought it was just a ‘cool line.’ Blizzard devs repeatedly linked it to ‘being cool.’ So, yes, they were absolutely trying to make him look cool, bossing the Alliance PC around.
But, we are probably running a bit far afield of the discussion. So, to kind of bring it back to my main point:
I don’t think that is the case. I think Blizzard is trying to acknowledge that Vereesa would not like the Horde and not have her talk to them like they were buddies, something even Horde players have complained about Alliance PCs doing. Honestly, her response is about as tame as it could possibly be without just straight up ignoring history. Which, I suspect is also something that would be heavily complained about. It is not the same level of interaction 5.3 treated the Alliance PC to. It is not really even more than most Horde characters say to Alliance PCs.
So, what is the real ask here? Do people want a response button? Okay, to say what? ‘I don’t like you either.’ It can’t be an escalation response. Not even the Vol’jin response the added was an escalation. So, what about every other time a Horde NPC is rude to an Alliance character? I would just about bet Lor’themar will have rude comments to Alliance PCs at some point (probably multiple points) during the expac. Do we give Alliance players rude comments back? How about when Blood Elf guards make rude comments? How about…
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I think a response button would solve a lot of the issue, even if it’s not allowed to escalate. Something like having a dialogue option to confront her (verbally) about the Purge, then Arator interrupts her response and redirects the conversation to the vision.
It’s short, it lets the Horde player express their opinion (and thus shows proof that anger at the Purge is not being ignored by the game’s story), doesn’t require any major changes to the event, and doesn’t force the PC nor the characters involved to ignore their past history and act like they’re buddies.
Another more complex (but hopefully not too complex) option would be when picking up the quest, the PC has an option to say “I’ll never talk to that [insult]”, Arator responds “well, okay, so here’s what happened when I talked to her” and the exact same scene plays out as a flashback, with the PC getting a generic disguise as some NPC that would be relevant to that storyline (an Argent paladin following Arator, to avoid being made to play as a Silver Covenant follower of Vereesa?)
I agree with this, which is why I think it’s a bad idea to use these kinds of characters as the sole NPC hook in a dual-faction story.
I’m thinking that Vereesa being a persona non grata in Silvermoon will mean that her visions/warnings won’t get much of an audience pre-Midnight, so that would preclude having a Horde version where a blood elf character gets the same vision. And having the Horde version be “a spy followed Vereesa and here’s their report of the conversation” isn’t really popular, but may be an option - though the spy’s response to hearing that scene may also give a sneak peek at how Silvermoon in general would respond to Vereesa showing up to race them with her predictions, which is one story benefit to handling it that way.
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I am not sure. Maybe. I just have two things that concern me with it.
- Would that actually satisfy people? I get the feeling that the response most want is to threaten, attack, etc. So, would ‘I don’t like you either’ actually be enough? Does it address even most people’s tastes?
- Precedent. What happens when Horde characters are rude to Alliance? Do Alliance players get a comeback line every time a Horde character is rude to them? Some of them were culpable or even directly involved in Garrosh and Sylvanas wars. At what point does it just devolve into ‘here is your insult/threaten/etc. X character?’
I have zero doubt that there will multiple Horde NPCs that make rude comments to the Alliance in Silvermoon. I will be surprised if there are not some outright threats. Those kind of comments are going to range from lowly guards to big important figures. If Lor’themar makes a rude comment to my Alliance character, do I get to respond with a rude comment about him supporting Sylvanas war?
I don’t want Blizzard to ignore the past, but I also don’t want the game to be a bunch of rotating smack talk.
I don’t disagree. Arator’s story does kind of create issues. Horde players don’t really want to deal with Vereesa. Alliance players don’t really want to deal with Sylvanas.
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This is wouldn’t be such a contentious issue if alliance heros weren’t constantly the default people we all had to level/interact with.
But this is just my opinion as someone who likes to play both factions.
Edit: I don’t think Anyone wants to deal with Varessa. She’s genuinely a terrible character
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Her first personal history with the Alliance PC or the Alliance as a whole. The Horde and Alliance are actively at war during that conversation. Are you suggesting that Zen’tabra should have trusted the PC implicitly because they freed her from Garrosh’s forces, ignoring all the bloodshed between the Alliance and the Horde?
Vereesa addresses the Horde PC as “Champion” in quotation marks. She makes it very clear that she’s still harboring ill will toward the PC for… I’m guessing either stealing the Divine Bell out of Darnassus without hurting anyone, or helping the Sunreavers she was enacting collective punishment upon escape. When she tells you “For now, we will accept your aid. We have much to discuss and not much time, I fear.” she’s making it very clear how little she thinks of you and is only “friendly” with you because she has to be. I don’t expect you to understand, but this is very much like if going into Zereth Mortis after Sylvanas had her fragmented soul returned to her, she had specific dialogue for Worgen players mentioning they must not really want Gilneas that badly if they still haven’t reclaimed it. They’re story beats outside the players control that they’re still being talked down for, like their frustrations with the story aren’t worth taking seriously. Swallow your pride and just be glad you’re allowed to participate.
There’s still a war actively going between Zen’tabra’s people and the Alliance PC when she threatens you. Vereesa is bringing up the purge she enacted a decade ago to tell you how little she thinks of you.
Vol’jin and his rebellion were still part of the same Horde that’s been at war with the Alliance that are to this day still holding Tiragarde Keep right outside Razor Hill. Why is he supposed to trust the Alliance aren’t just going to stab him in the back during the attack on Orgrimmar or once Garrosh is defeated?
The Alliance would “run errands for Vol’jin” so he could open up a second front for the Alliance, which Zen’tabra already explained on the walk over and why it would benefit the Alliance, but they’d need help to do.
Zen’tabra: Dis ain’t a task for da weak-hearted, stranger. But if ya help us, maybe Vol’jin begin ta trust ya. Either way ya weaken de Warchief’s grasp on his own lands. Tink a soft-skinned Alliance can do it? Ahahahahaaa!
The Alliance weaken Garrosh’s position in Durotar.
If we can call Cata and MoP “2 expacs worth of middle finger to the Alliance players.”, can we call whatever has been going on in the story since BfA a middle finger to the Horde players?
I don’t remember what Blizzard’s initial response was, but I’ll take your word for it. It sounds about right for what Blizzard would have said.
Then why is it something she only says to the player if they completed the Landfall campaign? It’s content from over a decade ago that the game actively shoos you away from. She’s cordial, even respectful if you did the Quel’delar questline, though I’m not sure which event takes precedent in her dialogue with the Horde PC. If the player is a hunter she was even involved with getting one of their artifact weapons, but she doesn’t acknowledge that.
I think most people, or at least the Horde players in this scenario, are asking to not be leered at by Alliance characters for decade old story content we didn’t have any control of, that the Alliance character themself are directly responsible for committing. I’d expect Alliance players would raise a stink if we had some cross faction quest to revive Vol’jin, and he had a comment for players who completed the 5.3 quests if they were “ready to work for me again, or slink around in your little robot cat?”.
Well, that would require any Horde character A: Having been/being in the story, and B: Still being alive since either of those wars.
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You missed the hilarity of him having an existential crisis when they mistakenly claimed Silvermoon would be 2/3rd Horde only instead of 1/3rd Horde only.
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He’s even insisted on still trying to get into the Horde side. It’s so sad.
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Frankly, I’d like there to be lots of these sort of dialogue options.
They’re little ways to let the player express their character’s opinions in the game setting, without being major enough to affect the actual story - basically, a cheap and easy way to fit in some character customization.
And they’re options, not requirements, so the player doesn’t have to smack talk with every cross-faction character they come across. I’d like plenty of positive dialogue options, too - they’re just the assumed default or silent assumption right now, but it would be fun to have multiple options for above-the-fray neutral responses, guarded but willing to work together responses, icily over-polite responses, etc.
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I’ll take some more RPG elements in my MMORPG, yes please.
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Make fun of it if you want to, but the Fallout 4 dialog wheel of:
- Yes.
- Sarcastic Yes.
- Tell me more.
- No.
Is still better than the silent agreement both Horde and Alliance Players are dealt throughout World of Warcraft.
I remember the real anguish that came about on the forums during Wrath of the Lich King, where the Kirin Tor basically pull the PC aside in Borean Tundra and hand you two red-hot iron pokers to perform torture on a captured mage whose been enslaved by the Blue Dragonflight. Players who completed that quest were complicit in torture, and they weren’t happy that they hadn’t been given the option to decline and still progress through the questline.
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I honestly can’t wait to do this quest and have Vareesa bring up the Purge to my Vulpera like he’d have any idea what that even was. Or even worse to a horde aligned Earthen who only knew of Dalaran long enough to see it fall out of the sky.
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Sylvanas could’ve had them too. Really, a divergent quest where the Alliance PC has to hash out a plan with Vereesa to somehow convince Silvermoon’s leaders to take her visions of disaster seriously while the Horde PC tackles the same issue with Sylvanas with regards to, uh, greater Azeroth would’ve been rad.
As it stands they’ve done little to warrant cross-faction cooperation with either Windrunner, and even less to justify these characters’ bad attitudes in the context of the quests. Sylvanas at least has no intention of leaving the Maw, but we’ve got Little Vereesa Lupertazzi over here going “the Purge of Dalaran, whatever you did there” in the context of warning Silvermoon of an impending blood elf slaughter. That’s absurd.
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Man……wish I was here to witness that mental breakdown.
But I’m honestly glad I took an almost three month break. I needed it. And after talking to my bestie, it gave me a whole new perspective on playing WoW 
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I don’t think it will happen, due to the flagging system that causes the text to change.
Has your Vulpera gone all the way through the Mists of Pandara questline?
If not, she won’t bring it up, if you have, she will. Same for when all players, both Horde and Alliance were scolded by Xera if they had the flag on them for having defeated Illidan in his raid.
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This character has, yeah. It’s a recent race change on an old character so I have the flag lol.