Unlike you, I can discuss facets of vanilla without comparing them to non-vanilla.
But you’re talking about 1.12 av but discussing a concept that didn’t become popular until a non-vanilla era so I don’t really think you can.
That concept was quite possible within vanilla’s timeframe. It most definitely happened. If anything beyond vanilla need to be brought up it would be the knowledge that it is the most efficient way to accumulate honor. It will happen moreso as a result.
I completely agree with this. I just don’t think the version has anything at all to do with it. Like, not at all.
Awesome. Well I disagree.
I’m guessing that at least one of the above items is deemed offensive in China.
So then hurry up and lose is a non issue because it didn’t happen until reinforcements were added.
Wait, wait a minute.
So you think if they were to release 1.5 or 1.8 or whatever that everyone will enter the bg and think “You know what I’m going to fight in mid, fight over that one gy, and I’m going to go do those quests.”
But then if they release the 1.12 version everyone is just going to turn sort of rabid and think “I NEED TO RUSH I NEED TO RUSH I NEED TO RUSH”
Surely…SURELY you can’t think this.
Sure, if you can retain the zerg. However the early versions and all of the content that still existed between the entrances and the generals were not conducive to simply being ridden through. Players died, a lot. As players die to the NPCs, they get booted backwards to GY behind the zerg.
Desire to rush does not imbue an ability to rush. The early versions did not have people making a conscious decision (for the most part) to stop and fight over a GY or fight in midfield. It happened because people were dismounted, killed, bounced back across the map by the very content that your friend zyrius claims didn’t cause more PVP.
No, I do not think the mentality of the rush will not exist. What I believe is that the early version, all of that content that you claim is not content, especially the NPCs, is the best chance of deterring such mentality.
On the flip side, NOT having all of those speed bumps and spike strips will virtually guarantee that it will be zerged.
I want the most complete version of AV, for the best chance that it will be played the way it was originally intended to be played.
What i think you fail to understand about reinforcements is that they forced the zerg mentality. In reality most people really prefer to win and to fight. However when a game mechanic makes doing so impossible and or futile they give up.
Without reinforcements even the worst turtle can potentially be turned into a win. And that’s what happened in 1.12 AV.
It ends up being a player decision one way or the other. Instead of the map trying to force things one way or the other which is the problem with early AV as well as reinforcements.
You are just suggesting a turtle? Something that is also used in 1.12? You understand you can turtle in every version of the game just as well correct?
So why would I turtle in one but not the other? Whats the benefit? It is doing the exact same thing.
You were the one suggesting 1.5 is conceivable now that they added it in retail correct?
Ok just putting that down in order to say this, retail proved that this is no longer the case of how it is going to play out. What you’re describing is how it played out during vanilla. People don’t just waltz through archers and npcs and allow them to just 100-0 them like they did back then. Players know what they need to do to zerg, and they do it.
Also, I’m not in complete agreement with Zyrus so bringing up his arguments when talking to me is pretty silly. I don’t bring up Mr.
cool guy into your arguments.
Also a side note, I find it hilarious that this guy is more than likely on ‘vacation’ as all he has been doing is voting lately LOL.
Yeah except it’s really not. If people want to rush, they are going to rush. If people want to turtle and do quests, they are going to turtle and do quests. You can not use an argument of people just ‘wanting to get their honor and get out’ for one version but not the other. That’s the definition of a bias opinion that should be overlooked.
It depends how you look at it. If we are going off of your bias opinion sure. But if we are going about it on how you think people are entering a 1.5 av then it won’t be, because you so eloquently chose to believe that there is a majority of players out there who just want to play the quests and take it slow.
I would honestly steer clear of this as well. I’m pretty sure blizzard made the changes to AV actually stating that it wasn’t being played the way they thought it should be played.
All in all, your arguments will always mean nothing when you are discussing the two different versions of AV and acting like two completely different people are joining up. For one you think people will just want to rush, the other you think people just want to do the quests and stuff. This is being dishonest.
What I think you fail to understand is that I could give a rat’s behind about TBC and reinforcements. Zerging DID happen within vanilla, and that is the timeline I am concerned about. The only thing beyond that that matters is that players KNOW that zerging is the most efficient way to gain honor. 1.12 (1.11) is the vanilla version that is most catering toward that strategy.
Jesus christ almighty, and you wonder why I am sick of engaging in discussion with you.
You are right. And 1.5av isn’t going to change this, as proven by retail where honor means even less than it does in vanilla.
What else could you possibly be suggesting? Are you actually suggesting that a zerg is just going to die out by npcs and npcs alone? My dude, you can’t be serious.
And there is nothing inherent about pre 1.12 AV that prevents zerging where as reinforcements explicitly force it. And since you were too lazy/incompetent/lacking of comprehension to either quote and/or comprehend what I said here it is again.
You also claim that the removal of the mobs and nerfing of the rest led to more PVP.
It lead to as much or as little pvp as you wanted without swarms of NPC’s getting in your way.
If you were finding less pvp in 1.12 AV it’s your own fault not the map’s.
Besides, you know, all the NPC mechanics players can use if they don’t want to go along with the zerg tactic. There is no inherent value in “more PvP”, by which you mean direct fighting. Having alternate ways to win and defend objectives, where even PvE specs could contribute, is precisely the appeal of AV. Not everything has to be built for optimal honor farming.
1.12 AV does this exact same thing if you are choosing to turtle. The only thing that makes turtling not work is reinforcements which makes it so the other team slowly depletes you. If you choose to turtle in one version and do quests you can choose to turtle in the other and do the quests. Nothing is stopping you.