I agree with this, it should be Renown 4 in that case, since it’s normally 4 weeks for unlocking a skip in a raid quest. 4 weeks is an ok amount of time to get gear from full clears, and it’s not like it’s mandatory to not full clear
My only two things are the skip should be made available at least for heroic by week 4, given that’s typically when most players or guilds obtain the heroic raid skip at least.
With dinars being made available sooner than week 17. Given by that point you have practically maxed out your characters, and while they’ll certainly guarantee you access to chase items, it’s also a case of they should have been part of teirs since their creation. Followed by should grant access to mythic+ trinkets and cantrip weapons as well. Given another very serious pain point with gearing in general is the over reliance on the vault system to supply you with BiS trinkets, which can widely vary in power.
I feel like our first dinar should be granted no later than week 6, and our last dinar be granted no later than week 12. Given that’s practically when your doing the hulk of your gearing prog in terms of farming out trinkets and items from the raid, and you can even choose to hold onto them as you see fit for later weeks.
All in all seems like a very good and promising system, it’s just those two things should be adjusted.
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Overall there’s a lot of good and cool ideas here, but I do think you’ll find that a cap of 1/week is too low and will frustrate everyone. It seems like the sort of thing you guys often wind up having to change a month or two in, so might be worth taking a second look now and bumping it up (2/wk I think would feel fine, though then you might also have to fiddle with the total available per week to allow for catchup).
It’s intended to be a tradeoff for the fact the skip is across all difficulties. It means if you’re only clearing Normal, you will have the Heroic and Mythic raid skips on Week 7 in addition to Normal.
I don’t agree with it, however. I think Mythic’s timetable should be separated from the other two, so that they keep their Week 4 availability and Mythic is put on this Week 7 unlock (or even Week 6, whatever brings it in line with whatever tradeoff they are aiming for).
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Can you elaborate please? This implies that you can just skip to Mug’zee on Mythic, ignoring the requirement to get there. Or is this strictly Normal/Heroic?
While these are BLP, it’s comes too late, given by that point the bulk of guilds that are progressing the raid will be done with it. These only seem to aim to aid those that either made alt swaps later into the tier, or to round out guilds that are struggling with the bosses still that late into the tier. It wouldn’t hurt to release one earlyish z and then one later on, like I suggested week 6 and 12, to where their impactful, yet spread out enough that it doesn’t turn into just sit and wait for them to release finally.
it won’t matter. Just because you CAN skip doesn’t mean you’ll get anything for it. Unless you think someone who can’t kill the earlier bosses will somehow manage to kill the two end bosses? Like, imagine if you could skip to tindral, or silken court without killing previous bosses. You aren’t killing them with a group that couldn’t kill the bosses you skipped. 100%
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The problem is that it might become the catalyst.
Where something was released to be a catchup/BLP system, and has slowly been turned into the primary way to get the items.
This is probably to try to make it less likely that everyone spends their tokens on an item, and then the boss drops a now useless item that everyone already bought from a vendor.
This does appear to mostly be targeting late season CE guilds for help.
Tindral, sure. But the time saved not pulling Broodtwister/Kyvezza might be the difference in CE vs no CE for some guilds, which is weird.
Firstly I love this type of development insight & presentation of lessons learned into how you’re trying to build on it. I hope this communication style & format continues.
- Love the wipe recovery.
I hope it’s 30 minutes to deal with situations where more than one person resurrects, but given your average raid should have 10+ people with a single target resurrect it saves all the messing around with warlock soulstones. Thirty minutes would help ameliorate the down side of multiple people accidentally self-resing on the same wipe.
It’d be nice if mass res was wrapped in somewhere to stop it being a two part process of “first one person resurrects while everyone waits, then they resurrect a healer who resurrects everyone else”.
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I’d like some clarity on whether the bullion/dinar at 17 is per character or per warband. Personally I don’t think it’d be unbalanced as per character, given the investment required to upgrade, but devs have been wary of this sort of alt power in the past.
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On rank 8 you say “an NPC will fly in on a rocket”, but then you say “you can use this NPC to travel” and “Renown is only necessary to skip”…
I’m a bit unclear whether this means someone in the raid needs renown 8 before the NPC even shows up, and therefore the flight system is locked until at least one person in-raid has 8?
Or does the NPC show up regardless, and someone in the raid with the skip is only to enable the skip for everyone? I’m guessing this one, but the description is unclear to me.
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I genuinely don’t think anyone who couldn’t kill those two, could kill court and ansurek.
and since i’ve already studied all the new bosses. that’s even more true. Galywix is looking to be harder than queen. Mugzee probably harder than court barring any mistuning. mechanically both are worse
I don’t think it’s going to help the people who can’t kill those 2 at all, but the people who would take ~4-5 weeks on each, and allowing the skip gives them an extra month or so to finish CE.
I have always been very loud about how i missed the old information deep communication like the Dev Watercoolers Ghostcrawler used to write or some of the patchnote explanations we would sometimes see about important changes.
This post, explaining every little detail of the Raid Renown gives me vibes like those, and i love it.
First, i can’t sing enough praise about the idea of the Raid Renown you and the rewards design team came up with, i can see that it comes from a place of learning of what worked from previous experiments like the Fated Seasson Rewards and progression buffs like in Nerubar Palace.
I also enjoy that while each reward is a improve the quality the raid group [Quality of Life, Damage, Etc], none of the rewards feel “Soul Crushing” or “Unfair” for those who haven’t achieved them yet.
I could very long-winded about this system, but it wouldn’t be productive about this thread, but one last time, congratulations to you and your fellows for the good idea and for the post.
But there are a onething i think is worth of mention.
In the last few races of the world first we have seen some players willing to do things who can be deemed “a bit more than bending the rules”, including the use of exploits who allowed the increase of renown to levels beyond what they could obtain for the time period.
So, i ask:
- Given Rewards like Renown 7 and Renown 10 can more than cause an unfair advantage during RWF if they “somehow” become acessible, are there methods to avoid such issues happening with the new Raid Renown?
Room Service: Lets you pick up complimentary “Mayjh” prepared Food and Drinks, restores half as much Health and Mana as real Mage Food. Limit 80 per day. “you don’t feel so good after consuming”
Mini-Bar Access: Lets you pick up Knock Off Brand Healthstones, restores half as much health as real Healthstones. 3 charges, Limit of 5 per day. “The color is rubbing off on your hands”
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I am really enjoying the transparency and dialogue coming from the dev team. I am also eager to see how this new system plays out.
what a joke. Triple it would be reasonable.
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Not a bad system in general but what puzzles me is how late the “Puzzling Cartel Chip’s” (PCC) are.
Waiting for 17 and 20 weeks which is over 4 months into the tier to be able to pick any two items is just way too late into the tier and is the point where most people who raid CE have the raid on farm and only raid log so at most it’ll maybe help curve unlucky vaults to get close to ‘BiS’ at the end of a tier and even the more casual players who won’t benefit much from this outside of getting 2x max track items when they’ve already given up playing the patch by this point.
You need to make the carrot more enticing, having the first PCC at something more reasonable like Renown 8 by this point it’s 2 months into the tier and won’t negatively effect any of the guilds vying for early Hall of Fame spots or the Race to World First. While it’ll give a solid boost to everyone at a much earlier point in the tier where people will be more refreshed in wanting to push content more as they just got their shiny new toy 2 months in instead of 4 months in.
Please reconsider the PCC to be Renown 8 and 16, add another reward for 20 a token that allows you to unlock a full xmog set of your choice of any difficulty LFR/N/H/M regardless of progression so that everyone can unlock a tier set colour palette of their liking without being forced into farming LFR for instance if they’re a mythic/heroic raider.
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I like the idea of a raid renown but please don’t make it 1 a week limit. 2 a week is fine.
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All of the individual bonuses seem cool, and I love the flavor. But I think that the power increases are just way too slow to be meaningful.
I am in a low/mid level CE guild, deep in queen prog rn. Almost everyone in my guild would rather be done with the tier by now. A lot of people this tier have quit / burned out. If you are going to make hard bosses and then create a system to softly nerf it, you need to deploy it faster, or have it scale harder. Otherwise more and more people on the periphery of mythic, or even stuff like heroic, will just quit.
I understand that people in WF → HOF level might want an untouched challenge, but there is no reason the renown track can’t scale differently after a projected time (say like 8 weeks). Make it so that after 8 weeks instead of going up by 3%, it goes up by 6%, or it goes up 3% each week. There is no reason the curve needs to be linear.
raw power, especially when fights are designed often such that they are more mechanics checks than damage checks, does less and less as the skill level of the group goes down.
This solution is a step in the right direction, but doesn’t go far enough to meet players farther away from hall of fame where they are.
They’re late by design. It’s more a fulfillment of a player’s seasonal goal, to get X weapon / trinket / jewelry, in case they never got the drop or vault they wanted. For whatever reason, giving players determinable loot when it can really make a difference is just anathema to these devs and their Vision™.
This is 4 months into a tier, I don’t know how you think this is a good idea.
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