11.1 Raid Renown Feature Preview and Context

Hey folks, with the 11.1 PTR cycle going strong, we wanted to shed some light on a new feature that’ll be coming alongside the new raid, Liberation of Undermine. 11.1 will feature a new Raid-Only Renown Track aimed at providing a host of power increases over time, as well as some cosmetic rewards and improving the quality of life for raiders. This Renown is earned exclusively through completing the raid, and is a pretty big experiment on our end, so let’s talk a bit about how we got here, why we’re trying it, and what it actually entails.

Raiders in The War Within will be at least somewhat familiar with Nerub’ar Finery, a currency collected from defeating bosses within Nerub’ar palace that can be turned in to gain a stacking warbound damage and healing increase. While we believed in our reasons to tackling this - namely to allow for players to more easily meet their seasonal goals as time went on, as well as providing some extra value for those who enjoy raiding long-term but may want to try it on a variety of characters - we knew the implementation relying on currencies and quests wouldn’t be perfect. In hindsight, it was a lot less perfect than we’d accounted for - with Warbands being such a new feature, there were some pitfalls that led to bugs, and an overall confusion about how much finery one should have, how you are relative to intended seasonal progress, and so on.

Despite this, we felt the reception to its inclusion was positive and that it was adequately performing its purpose - players gained power over time, allowing them to topple roadblocks that might have kept them stuck for long periods in previous seasons, and the cadence was quick enough that players felt motivated to continue clearing to see that progress play out. So when looking at how to iterate and improve based on feedback, we felt we needed something visible and already familiar to players that’s also understood as a Warband feature - and through that lens, Renown felt like the obvious next step as a possible forever home for this type of feature.

Enter the Gallagio Loyalty Rewards Club. This 20-Step Renown track aims to combine the aforementioned scaling raid buff alongside some staple comforts like Raid Skips and introduce some newer ones to see what works and what doesn’t. In an ideal world, Raid Renown should achieve the following goals:

  • Supplement the storytelling and setting of the raid to improve immersion and flavor
  • Easily communicate and telegraph what your efforts will yield over time
  • Improve the moment-to-moment experience of raiding, notably between encounters or during breaks
  • Be accessible and forgiving for players who miss weeks of raiding or start midway through a season

This is the criteria through which we’ll consider 11.1’s Raid Renown a success or failure, and feedback on everything from the above goals to how long the track should be, time to complete, and what’s available through it will help shape what it looks like in future patches, or if it should be in future patches at all.

Obtaining Renown and Cadence

Let’s talk a bit about how players will obtain reputation, and the proposed cadence in place to ensure a smooth progression over time. Like everything else covered in this post, things are subject to change, so feel free to ask questions or inquire if anything is unclear.

  • As with the Severed Strands buff in Nerub’ar Palace, this Renown is fully warbound and is difficulty agnostic. It can be progressed on any character, on any difficulty, and be applied to different ones at a later date.
  • Players who enter the raid will begin with Renown 1 unlocked, with a globally rising cap of 1 Renown per week able to be earned from the raid.
    • For example this means that Week 1 of the Raid’s opening will allow players to get to Renown 2 and no further, regardless of how many bosses are killed. A player starting the Raid for the first time on Week 11 however will be able to rapidly progress towards that cap before joining everyone at the ‘1 per week’.
  • A total of 5000 Reputation is present within the raid - twice as much is needed to get your 1 Renown level for the week, and is obtained from killing Bosses and named Lieutenant enemies within the raid. We’re trying this for a few reasons.
    • Firstly is to be less prescriptive on where and how players spend their time in the raid - previously, players needed to fully clear Nerub’ar Palace before they’d obtain enough currency to turn in for the week. This should allow for more flexibility and less time spent ‘preparing’ if your goal is to obtain a buff to be used in that same week’s progress.
    • Secondly, we’re hoping for this to be less punishing to groups and guilds that progress slower for various reasons. In Season 1 if your group couldn’t fully clear the raid, you were only creating more work for yourself in a future week. This should ensure that groups both skipping to later bosses, or stuck partway through the raid can still see progress for engaging as best they can without necessitating ‘homework’ between raid nights.
      • Reputation is split as follows:
        • Bosses 1-6 provide 450 Reputation each. Mug’Zee, the Heads of Security (Boss 7) provides 600, and Chrome King Gallywix (Final Boss) provides 1000. 7 ‘Lieutenant’ enemies throughout the raid present in trash packs provide the final 100 each, totaling 5000.
  • Catchup specifics are TBD but will function very similarly to how Nerub’ar Finery did - this is to say there’ll be a sliding scale where players further behind will gain more reputation on kills, ensuring that they should rapidly approach parity with the global norm, likely in the span of a few weeks.
  • For players interested in only the Cosmetic Rewards granted by this track, the Gallagio Loyalty Rewards Club is intended to remain a functional track far into the future (think Shado-Pan Assault or the Hydraxian Waterlords), and so can be earned even with at the accelerated cadence by non-raiders in future patches and expansions. Is it not necessary to complete this track within this season or on any sort of timer to obtain the mounts or toys contained within.

Track Node Contents

Lastly, we’ll briefly go over the current placements and effects of the Renown Track as-is. In the interest of brevity, we’ll be keeping these short but adding commentary where applicable to try and get ahead of some common questions. Same as before, while this represents our current intentions, all values and functionality are TBD. For those unaware, the Raid begins at the Incontinental Hotel and through this Renown will serve as a sort of Hub of useful NPCs and Vendors.

Renown 1

All Professions Tables, Vendors, and a Crafting Order Specialist now exist at the Incontinental Hotel for use.

Renown 2

Consume food 100% faster while inside Liberation of Undermine, and grants access to the Busted Rune Dispenser, and object in the hotel which has a chance to grant an Augment Rune.

Renown 3

Transmog and Item Upgrade Vendors become available inside the Hotel.

Renown 4

Gain access to your Gallagio Loyalty Rewards Card, which functions as a Hearthstone for the Incontinental Hotel, and gain 3% Damage and Healing increase while inside Liberation of Undermine.

  • The Rewards Card has a 30 minute cooldown, and is only usable while inside Liberation of Undermine - it’s intended to return you to the hub between bosses if needed for crafting, upgrades, or anything else.

Renown 5

Gain access to repair stations throughout the raid that also remove ‘Sated’ debuffs, much like Temporal Attendants in Mythic+.

  • These are not intended to replace the value of Engineering Hammers, and will be placed sparsely in the outdoor areas of the raid.

Renown 6

Gain a 10% Movement Speed buff inside the raid while Out of Combat, and access to a self-resurrection while out of combat.

  • Tuning on the self-res is TBD, but we’re presently targeting 30m-1hr as a range for the Cooldown, aimed at being an emergency wipe recovery tool.

Renown 7

Damage and Healing buff improves to 6%.

Renown 8

Raid Skip unlocked; after defeating the first boss, an NPC will fly in with a rocket you can use to skip between bosses 7 and 8.

  • As Raid Skips were previously via quest and also per-difficulty, placing this on the Renown Track is one of the many things we’re trying out.
  • Even if you aren’t Renown 8, you can use this NPC to travel within the raid depending on bosses defeated, similar to the Flight Path within Nerub’ar Palace and other previous raids - the Renown is only necessary to skip ahead early while those bosses are still alive.

Renown 9

2 Vendors outside of the Cauldron of Carnage, one of the raid’s earlier bosses, will sell you miniaturized Battle Pets based on Torq and Flarendo, the Mecha Gorilla and Mechasaur found within that encounter.

Renown 10

Damage and Healing buff improves to 9%.

Renown 11

Out of Combat Movement Speed improves to 20%, and you are now granted one Counterfeit Dealer’s Chip which can be traded at the Hotel for cosmetic appearances.

  • Like the Dragonflight Season 4 Vendors, one of the available vendors will provide multiple colors of weapons from the Liberation of Undermine Raid for purchase.

Renown 12

A goblin inside the raid will provide you with Hot Sauce, a fire-breathing damage-proc that scales in effectiveness based on your raid consumables.

  • Professions consumables historically have an issue where they don’t often scale throughout an expansion, so this is an attempt at making the value of Well Fed, Flask, Potion, and Enchantments stronger within a raid setting.

Renown 13

Damage and Healing buff improves to 12%.

Renown 14

The Busted Rune Dispenser from Renown #2 is now fixed! It always grants an Augment Rune, and has a chance to grant more (or explode).

Renown 15

Gain a second Counterfeit Dealer’s Chip for cosmetic appearances, and the 6th Boss of the raid (The One-Armed Bandit) now has a small change of dropping one as Personal Loot on future kills.

Renown 16

Damage and Healing Buff improves to 15%.

Renown 17

Receive a Puzzling Cartel Chip, which can be traded for a Weapon, Trinket, or otherwise Special Item from the Liberation of Undermine.

  • Similar again to Dragonflight Season 4’s Bullions and Shadowlands Season 4’s Dinar, these are intended to have their own upgrade track - which will mean they’ll scale to the maximum rank of 14 given enough crests and valorstones.
  • This could change before launch, but the intent is for these to be fully upgradeable and usable by anyone that reaches this point, and not locked or conditioned to certain difficulties.

Renown 18

Out of Combat Movement Speed increases to 30%, Auctioneer now becomes accessible within the Hotel.

Renown 19

Receive a final Puzzling Cartel Chip, and the Damage and Healing Buff hits its maximum benefit at 18%.

Renown 20

A purely Cosmetic rank, players obtain the title ‘High Roller’, a Teleport to the Raid’s entrance (usable from anywhere), and at last access to the Furious Flarendo mount, the robot Mechasaur found within the Cauldron of Carnage fight.

We’ll stick around and do our best to clarify and answer questions where appropriate. Thanks so much for reading, and we’re looking forward to your feedback and discussion on this topic. See you in the Undermine!

3 Likes

17 weeks to get the first bullion is hilariously bad, the raids over at that point

10 Likes

The raid skip being all difficulties is interesting, but I don’t think it’ll break anything. Being able to skip easier bosses to do harder ones isn’t exactly gonna make that content easier and on plus we won’t have 3 versions of same quest in logs anymore so a big win overall.

Also nice to see raid teleport being accessible this way. I do think it should be earlier in track though. gaining the ability to teleport to the raid when you’re possibly done with it already feels bad. I think it should be at like renoun 10. In fact I have same view about dungeon teleports.

Always felt those being the FINAL reward instead of the earlier one also was strange cause for many players once you get that teleport, your prog on those dungeons are finished. The final reward always makes more sense to be title or mount where the teleport should be earlier reward you get that encourages you to go back and keep pushing.

2 Likes

Or we could just resurrect at the boss upon releasing.

1 Like

Overall I think this is a great idea.

It feels like the team is absolutely terrified of the Dinar system being present in a normal season, but I think it’s something that’s been needed for a while now. I feel like 4 months is DEFINITELY too long to get your first one, and I might even say there should be 3 total.

That’s looking at weapons/trinkets/jewelry that often have some extra/powerful/unique effects.

Regardless of that, 2 months feels like a more appropriate point to receive your first Dinar. Then you could continue on a monthly cadence after that for 3 and 4 months into the content patch (if we go with 3 total).

Making everyone wait 4-5 months to get the two dinars seems pretty silly.

9 Likes

Will this work as previous raid skips where only one person in the raid needs to have it unlocked?

This just feels REALLY bad. It would be ok if we had one around Renown 6 or 7.

Please consider having these in raid tier early on like 6 or 7, and the 2nd later on like renown 15.

Also maybe have renown’s cap go from 1 a week to 2 after renown 10.

7 Likes

This seems like a promising system on the surface. I think 1 renown per week is too slow, especially with the raid skips requiring us to wait until week 6 to finally unlock (and thus not usable until week 7) when currently we can finish them all but Mythic’s on week 3 and have them usable for week 4.

Slowing down the pace of raid progression on difficulties below Mythic in any way isn’t going to play well, no matter how well-intended the changes are.

EDIT: I missed the part where the raid skip is difficulty-agnostic. In that light, having it wait until week 7 makes sense on the surface…but I’d rather see the skips for Heroic and Normal be moved to week 4 and Mythic be on its own, separate timetable.

5 Likes

I actually really like that these are super late, since it conveys to me that this is supposed to be BLP, and not the primary way to acquire the items.

3 Likes

Sounds fun thank u scariizard

I really like everything about this, except the pacing of the timegating on the renown.

I understand timegating, however, I feel 2 renown a week is more appropriate.

4 Likes

Overall, this is a really fantastic feature that integrates raid skips and damage buffs much better than previous systems. Really glad to see this, and I hope it becomes a mainstay for every raid going forward.

Some points of feedback:

  • The Puzzling Cartel Chip rewards seem very late in the season to be of significant value. At Renown 17, it would be around four months before they are able to be used, which seems quite late to me. It might be worth swapping them with something like the Counterfeit Dealer’s Chip renown slots, since those are more long-term cosmetic rewards that will have longevity past the immediate season

  • On the subject of the Counterfeit Dealer’s Chips, I assume they merely act as a replacement for a given currency? It would feel odd to only have two cosmetic pieces purchasable for the entire account, when you could purchase as many pieces as you like with alt characters during Dragonflight Season 4.

  • I feel its a grave injustice that only the Mecha-Godzilla mount is available for players, and not the Mecha-Gorilla. This is a clear bias towards one kaiju that simply cannot stand. /s

Like I said though, overall an amazing system that seems really nicely geared towards quality of life and giving a wide breadth of cosmetic and player power options, I really dig this. Glad to see that you guys are open to feedback on the exact rewards.

6 Likes

Overall this is great but the “Puzzling Cartel Chip” are acquired way too late, the season will be over for almost everybody by that point.

3 Likes

I’m not sure what their internal metrics say, but also I’m not sure I care. For years now the group I play with drops off HARD around the 2.5-3 month mark. Which is a pretty damn long time to play one game tbh!

But yeah, no one is gonna stick around to just get one item when they don’t even care about the season anymore.

5 Likes

So with Renown 8 you can just skip to the end of the raid on Mythic no matter what? That doesn’t seem right.

4 months into a tier is far too late in the patch for dinar. It should be weeks 8 and 10, not week 16 and 18.

3 Likes

They can keep dropping from bosses after you hit those renown tracks with the later renown increasing the chance.

So it seems it’s an evergreen thing to get transmog easier.

Would be nice however if the chance applied to all bosses, or to the 7th and 8th boss as well.

The first one coming 4 months into a tier is atrocious. It should be a REWARD, not a consolation prize. This is terrible and needs to be changed.

4 Likes

Also, why does the raidskip take twice as long to unlock compared to now? Why are guilds that can clear first week and every week after forced to take twice as long to skip to the end?

…most guilds only do the raid for about 3 months, a month of progress/beating it, 2 months of farming, (sometimes reversed) then takes breaks for their mental health.

But your Renown Track is designed to take 5 months?

Can you like, boost that? Especially since most raid tiers are 6-8 months, so you aren’t giving people much time for a mental break. You’re going to burn out your raiders.

This is screaming “Too many people stopped doing LFR/Normal because of Delves and we got in trouble for raid participation dropping”

4 Likes

Cap at 2 the first week. Then +2 cap each week and were done in 10 weeks seems very fair.

7 Likes