11.0.5 PTR is not enough. We still have 0 complexity or payoff in our rotation and still have talents that actively work against the way balance druid has always been played. I am honestly sick of the incompetence with the class design and STILL with the Druid class tree. I’m abandoning this ship. Please FIRE the person in charge of this spec. Its honestly a meme at this point at how incompetent they are.
4 Likes
firing is not the solution. its litterally one guys doing half the roster.
They need to hire more talent. Have them play the class and experience it both in game and lore wise.
Have them collab with both pvp and pve devs
have them make proper decisions for the class to which they are assigned.
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I think it’s a step in the right direction, and I really like the build I’ve assembled in the ptr wowhead talent calculated. IMO the next steps should be a defensive buff, and ultimately, freeing us from the Eclipse mechanic somehow… Or, at the very least, wildly loosening it to the point where you get to choose which filler you want to… Empower… 
Edit: Though, I wholly agree with the OP’s sentiment on that there hasn’t been a precise, feedback-driven change to the core functions of the spec’s mechanics and toolkit designs… And it often seems as if different directions are being tried all at once, even within the same talent tree.
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Ramp and defensive issues are still a big problem outside of a boring rotation even after thete changes
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Watching the Ret paladins and the like walk into a pack and drop 2 mil dps while I’m dotting everything and working my way up just feels bad. Spriest and Aff Lock can both come online in a matter of 2-3 GCDs, but Balance is out there with a 20 second ramp before anything is happening, and even then you’re playing catchup! You’ve got to dot them all up, then build AP, then you can start dropping some Starfalls, but it still takes a while before you’re doing any real damage.
Eclipse needs to die in a fire. It’s not a fun mechanic, nor is the opposite schools spell proccing it.
The talent below Solar Beam needs to change - give us the choice to convert it into a single target silence on a short CD. Why is Shaman out there with an 8 sec interrupt while Balance is stuck at a minute? Kills our utility we bring to M+
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Why do we need complexity? It’s fine and much fun. PTR is awesome currently. They should definitely NOT listen to you
This ramp problem is non existent on PTR shrooms ent build is awesome. Have you even tried it?
I agree with your core idea here, but think we need to specify the problem. I’d say complexity, as in – you have more ability options to answer a situation – is perfectly, fine… great, actually; but that it should always be optional. I don’t like spellbars feeling clogged up, particularly with duplicate abilities or extras that don’t feel useful. Even if the talent is “meta”, I actually don’t pick it (at least from a PvP standpoint) if it even feels remotely cumbersome or doesn’t guarantee a tangible reward in the control or damage profile of the match later on (I’d say this is particularly a Solo queue consideration). Often, they turn up to be unncessary in hindsight, and that focusing on doing the easiest damage and most effective control will allow the player to have more awareness to focus on things like positioning and a strategy for the encounter (whether it be PvP, M+ or Raid, or even just pulling mobs in the open world really).
TL; Complexity of rotation should be optional VS passives that allow us to bake more benefits into our existing toolkit, albeit at the cost of having less control.
To that effect, I think Orbit Breaker, Sunseeker Mushroom, Shooting Stars and Crashing Star feel great – as do the shorter DoTs as I have been advocating for, for years. We just need more dispel protection.
The only steps remaining after that would be to graduate from the current iteration of Eclipse, and then do something to help with survivability.
I hold that the key component to meaning and fun playing (anything!) is agency and reward for skill choices, practice and execution.
To that end, sure, complexity options might increase the skill ceiling, but we must beware lest the skill-cap or even just the accessibility and ‘ease of use’ of the spec is too hard, (and/)OR cumbersome. I think, unfortunately, Balance Druid falls quite a bit into the latter since the newest iteration of Eclipse.
On the other hand, perhaps Empowerments can be argued for as too accessible or streamlined. I lean more into the latter because I want ‘Starsurge First’ and more agency than Eclipse provides with its ramp-up and lock-in phases, and even just multidotting in itself feels outdated in the (post?) modernizing pacing of the game…
Therefore, I suggested something along the lines of -
you have Moonfire (builder) - to tag a single target on a GCD (Twin Moons - up to 3?)
(two hands animation again plz and more power/weight/flow to all animations plz thank you).
Sunfire (builder) - /something else here e.g. Starseeker Swarm or even Minor Moon, would be an AoE, maybe an oGCD that would cause Moonfire to “flare”, perhaps it could just be 3 stacks of Wild Mushroom on a 3 sec cooldown… Or, if we keep Sunfire, have that and Moonfire do something with each other, anything… be it procs or just faster GCDs for these two.
We SHOULD start with half AP. Starsurge (Spender) - should cost 40, 36 AP Minimum. Should Empower the fillers with 3 stacks or a shorter duration than 15 sec, and Hit significantly harder. But overall I’d like LESS AP generation.
Wrath (Builder and main filler) should be the main active generator of AP if one can stand, but there needs to be something more so it doesn’t get boring.
Here are some ideas:
Goldrinn’s Fang / Minor Moon here instead? - maybe an active proc or instant generator with a CD that deals more damage with Starsurge debuffs, and cleaves with Starfall? Maybe it could make DoTs burn out - speeding up their damage and AP generation. Maybe it can proc itself or recharge with DoTs or Fillers used.
Starfire (Builder and AoE filler) - obviously remains, but I’d like to see procs from Cosmos and Owlkin moved to something else, actually. Be it either an OPTION to use it on Wrath, or a lower chance but just procs a spender or grants AP and a small defensive instead.
Starfall (AoE Spender Option) - Remains as it is now, but also empowers DoTs.
Lunar Patch (AoE Spender Option) - a placeable ala Efflorescence. Deals damage and causes DoTs to accelerate/burn, and provides a slight slow, and maybe even 5% leech to allies and 10% to self or something.
Celestial Bulwark - Absorption shield, even if a passive, weaker alternative to Nature’s Vigil. We just need more defensives. That OR
Celestial Guardian changed so that Bear Form provides more active / passive survivability, ideally absorption, and maybe even gives Starfire procs when hit or generates AP and a shield upon leaving back to Moonkin Form…
Speaking of which – Astral Form being the baseline. Yes, I know… But you can still a Moonkin if you choose. I’d make it, or at least give it a Glyph of Shadow-like makeover, with Moon and Sun options, and where the armor still shows. Ideally, just make Fluid Form passive to the point where using Moonfire just activates it. And bake more defensive capacity outside of it. PERHAPS the Polymorph immunity can become a benefit of Moonkin Aura, which would also be made spec-baseline rather than a PvP talent (alongside Owlkin Adept and Celestial Guardian)
Full Moon - COSTS 100 AP HUGE NUKE instant or at least a lone & shorter cast with a 1 min cd. Needs a new visual and terrifying sound. It should be a fearsome finisher ability, maybe tied to Incarnation so that people know when it’s coming.
Fury of Elune - perhaps a choice between builder or spender? Tracking or area?
Mobility – Better Tiger Dash plz with at least 1 sec movement impairing immunity / Displacer Beast brought back / a targeted FLIGHT FORM Leap (does NOT mean flying in combat). IMO just one of those can absolutely be enough with Feline Swiftness, and Travel Form maybe could be added the Tireless Pursuit PvP Talent option as a weaker baseline. Stampeding Roar should be entirely optional down the tree.
Mobility Anti-Bloat: Stampeding Roar+Wild Charge+Dash vs Why Tiger Dash is a fun 'sleeper' talent
Extreme opportunistic shenanigans build not for the faint hearted /Hot take inc:
I’m actually not using Stampeding Roar, NOR Wild Charge and Dash… and I’m hard to catch. This is a VERY unusual setup, I know. But it works and always has for me. Slowing, kiting, CC’ing and Shifting for the situation help, and Feline Swiftness being more accessible has been an absolute gem for me.
I got Duelist and AoTC with JUST Tiger Dash in BfA. It’s obviously not optimal if you’re actually min-maxing for rank 1 / CE level gameplay, but Wild Charge also has its problems with timing, gcd and animation catching. Maybe more so for me because of regional lag?
Anyhow, Tiger Dash allows me to dictate positioning, it even won me an arena game last night vs pretty decent players who didn’t expect to have to adjust so much, and then had to leave their healer open – due to trying to catch me, while I still CC’ed and bursted them.
I guess my point of less ability spamming but more impact stands behind this idea as well, though it’s mostly an issue with DPS or off-healing “noodle spamming”: Press Wrath/Starfire/Starsurge/Starfall/Regrowth for Xs +/ get CC’ed / can’t peel / reposition or just adjust response in time due to trying to get basic dmg ramp done = u lose gg. And, atm for TWW? Forget the Regrowth spam. It won’t save you nor your ally, maybe except in a pinch, albeit very rarely is worth more than 1 or 2, MAYBE 3 GCDs. My point is, it’s better nowadays to stand and cast or kite while continuing to dish out damage or control in Moonkin Form. EVERY GCD counts. |
TL;DR: LESS abilities; but MORE agency, synergy and impact – feels better and more rewarding to play.
Hero talents - Elunes Chosen vs Druid of the Nightmare – which would red-shift spells. Adding new effects. Incarnation could be Malfurion-like Starry eyes, crescent and even horns… some great visuals could happen there…
Though, I can see an argument for wanting things like Mushrooms, Treants, Hurricane, Insect Swarm… Perhaps we could be the first spec with 3 options? #Copium 
or Just make Elune’s Chosen cooler and more effective with the former options, maybe even based on your Stars Glyphs… and develop Keeper of the Grove in a more distinct direction separately as well.
The problem isnt eclipse. ECLIPSE HAS ALWAYS EXISTED ITS THE BALANCE DRUID CORE MECHANIC!
The problem is the talent shuffle and changes! Pulsar needs to come back, Elunes Chosen needs a rework, and they need to bring stellar drift back into the game. We also need a new defense or a rework in the amount of damage we take. These 4 changes combined with a buff across the board will fix balance druid. I’m tired of hearing complaints about eclipse. It requires you to think and it also requires you to “not mess up” which is a skill-based issue if you can’t do it properly. This spec has never been easy to raid with at a mythic level or do top tier damage with and it was fun because of the complexity.
no what is it? You dont have to cast moonfire and sunfire then 2 spells to get into eclipse and start dpsing?
You only dot if they are going to last 18-20seconds, otherwise you just go instant in to starfiring and shroomin.
ah so shrooms trigger mastery then i guess