11.0.5 Mistweaver Monk Feedback

In Development The War Within Patch 11.0.5 PTR
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SEE EDIT AT THE END OF THIS POST

Loving what I’m seeing in these changes. The streamlining of things is very cool. Giving Crackling Jade Lightning a power boost is highly welcome. Blackout Kick getting a buff is lovely. Ancient Teachings being baseline is something I’m absolutely ecstatic about. Jadefire Teachings giving us a second way to empower Ancient Teachings is wonderful, I was really missing that with the removal of Essence Font. Basically, nearly everything here is spectacular.

I only have two things that I’m concerned about.

First off, the removal of the reset on Rising Sun Kick with Ancient Concordance being removed. I’m not sure if this is just an oversight, or maybe it was intentional because it’d make Rushing Wind Kick too powerful? It feels like a pretty significant nerf, though, especially with it negatively affecting the feedback loop of Pool of Mists. While it wasn’t something that could be relied upon, it made a massive difference when it happened. Awakened Jadefire already has a lot going on, so I kinda understand not wanting to fold it into that talent, but could it maybe go into Jadefire Teachings? That’d ensure that we still have a way to do it without giving us a massive boost to Rushing Wind Kick. This also feeds into my second concern, our mastery.

Gust of Mists is cool. I love it. I think it’s a great, flavorful mastery. It’s also a weaker ability for fistweaving oriented builds since it doesn’t interact with Tiger Palm, only has a proc chance with Blackout Kick, and now with no way to reset Rising Sun Kick it’s dropping even further in value. There’s a real opportunity here to fix that and make it more meaningful. Musing a bit, it could potentially be a separate 1 point talent as a capstone below Awakened Jadefire, giving a satisfying end to that part of the tree. That line feeding into a choice node related to Thunder Focus Tea just doesn’t feel coherent, so something that’s more flavored to the line would be wonderful.

Overall, I’m really liking what I’m seeing here and have high hopes for how this set of changes will play out, but I hope we can get these small tweaks!

Edit: I’m not going to edit my original text to fix my mistake. The baseline Teachings of the Monastery passive does still grant a reset to Rising Sun Kick, it’s just the standard 5%. So we’re still able to do resets, it’s just 5% instead of the 15% we were able to get with Ancient Concordance. I still think that’s an issue for a melee build, but this isn’t quite as dire as I had originally understood it to be!

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Positives:

Getting a big AoE CJL after TFT sounds awesome if tuned correctly and I only need to use it post TFT. Using CJL in regular rotation sounds bad. Please keep fistweaving as the optimal option.

Any buffs to MW dam are good, WE ARE LACKING.

AOE kick sounds great, make it do good dam and we’re good

Ancient Accordance (whatever new version is called) being procced by TFT is great.

Negatives:

AOE kick should not be a choice node with Jadefire, we need to keep fistweaving and this talent will never be taken.

RSK resets are huge part of our kit, please don’t take it out.

Buffing blackout kick ST is great however limiting cleave is bad because again we will not ever take the aoe kick talent as long as it shares a node with Jadefire.

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The point of Rushing Wind Kick is that it can be used at 25 yard range and optionally without a target, which explicitly helps Caster MW builds using Rising Mist and not Fistweaving (more specifically, it helps Caster MW builds in PvP since in PvE due to the Ancient Teachings change, Caster MWs will still be in melee). The damage of Rushing Wind Kick splits which makes it intentionally unusuable for Fistweaving.

That’s also probably why the node is no longer locked behind Jadefire Stomp alone.

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Aah missed the range on that, still fact stands please do not make caster mistweaver the optimal playstyle.

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The issue I have with Rushing Wind Kick is that it’s on a choice node with Jadefire Teachings because “it would be too broken to have both” akin to Resto Druid’s Flourish/Photosynthesis rather than it being a genuine option between similar design space.

One way to align them better is to replace Rushing Wind Kick’s “RM does 50% more healing” which is kinda boring anyways to “Rushing Wind Kick damage transfers an additional 200% of its damage through Ancient Teachings”, essentially aligning the design spaces by making Rushing Wind Kick the “primary” damage-to-heal skill vs. also allowing TP/BoK to do it, which opens up a new decision that could potentially allow Fistweavers to take it.

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Mistweaver Feedback

I think most of these are good changes, I just have a couple requests/suggestions.

1. Sheilun’s Gift and Heart of the Jade Serpent

The Conduit of the Celestials Hero Talent tree has a node Heart of the Jade Serpent:

Consuming 10 stacks of Sheilun’s Gift calls upon Yu’lon to decrease the cooldown time of Renewing Mist, Rising Sun Kick, Life Cocoon, and Thunder Focus Tea by 75% for 8 sec.

This is a fine enough power boost, but I’m concerned that it’s tied into Sheilun’s. Specifically, Sheilun’s has basically been a “required” talent since its release in 10.0.5. I think it’s fine to keep [a] trigger as Sheilun’s, but I’d like to either see:

  • another trigger that isn’t Sheilun’s (maybe Mana Tea?)
  • a choice node that doesn’t rely on having Sheilun’s

I understand many class/spec/hero trees have a specific talent that is required, however this particular talent has been dominant for a very long time. The rotation without Sheilun’s feels complete, and with Celestial Conduit it really doesn’t feel like it needs an additional cooldown for party healing. I’d like to be free to experiment with no-Sheilun builds, however Heart of the Jade Serpent is discouraging that.

Would be nice to see a change.

2. Master of Harmony

Now that Ancient Teachings is becoming baseline, I think it would make sense to tie Overwhelming Force into having benefits from AT. The hero talent tree overall feels like it needs some work, and there is an excellent Wowhead post that details many of the issues. I can’t post links to external sites, but it’s the Mistweaver Hero Talent Tree Showdown post.

3. RSK and Ancient Concordance

A huge component of the MW kit is spreading RMs through RSK. We don’t really need less, beefier RSKs. The more RSKs, the more RM, the more synergy with our other talents. I think removing the RSK reset is a big mistake with too many downstream consequences.

The OP did a great job pointing this out:

I understand with the new choice node that makes RSK become ranged - it could be difficult to select because you lose the ability to reset with BoK at ranged (you’re not in melee so you can’t kick). I’m sure the class designers realized that guides would point this out, and say that jadefire stomp build is still the best, since you get RSK resets.

I can’t really mindread the class designer’s thinking here, but it genuinely seems like you had to nerf the melee playstyle to make the new ranged options more palatable. I think this isn’t a terrible intuition a priori, but reducing the number of renewing mists coming out is a bad consequence of this.

I think there is an alternative that doesn’t punish Jadefire Stomp playstyle. Maybe there is some soothing mist reset or other ranged reset that could be incorporated? OP’s suggestion also sounds reasonable:

It’s just really confusing that you need to nerf the melee playstyle to justify introducing a ranged option.

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I think it’s probably okay to have both if it were for example to become a node in master of harmony. It’s a hero talent thing similar in power to something like eternal flame. That would make master of harmony a lot more interesting.

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These changes look incredible. My only concern now is knee-jerk nerfs before anything even goes live.

Speaking from a strictly PVP perspective, Castweaver needs a lot of the things being introduced in this patch to be on-par with the other Healers in the upcoming Rated Battle Ground Blitz (RBGB) format - especially after the Revival/Peaceweaver nerfs.

Please, please, please do not knee-jerk nerf these things into the ground! That’s what happened during the SL PVP Talent rework, in which MW PVP Talents (e.g.: Demat) were basically dead before they got off the PTR. Sadly, a lot of MWs were to forced to learn to temper their optimism because of things like this.

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I think it’s great that CJL is finally getting some love after many years of people asking for CJL stuff for MW.

I do think it’s kind of hard to give up any talents in already existing builds to pick up the new talents though, so I’m not sure it’ll really get a lot of play the way the tree currently is. I would reduce some of the 2 pointers down to 1 pointers to actually give us a chance to pick up some more talents in the tree.

From a caster/SooM perspective, I also still wish we’d get some interaction in hero talent trees with SooM.

I still think Renewing Mist should be added to Peer Into Peace so we can cast RM mid SooM as well.

I also still think Refreshing Jade Wind should cast on your SooM target instead of you if you happen to be using SooM when you trigger it.

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I think there are a lot of great changes here, but it’s a real shame that Rushing Wind Kick and Jadefire Teachings are on a choice node with each other.

I understand the thought process of trying to separate the caster and fistweaving playstyles, but in practice I think many players will just see Jadefire Teachings as the “optimal but boring” option whereas Rushing Wind Kick will be the “inferior but fun” option.

I really hope they consider separating these two talents so that we can actually use the cool new skill they designed without giving up such a fundamental part of our healing toolkit.

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Have to agree that the tree still feels very crowded, making taking the “fun” talents difficult. I still hope you consider making “Legacy of wisdom” baseline.
Also the cocoon talent change seem odd, mostly due to liking nourishing chi.

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Edited OP, but I figured I should reply so people don’t miss it. I was outright wrong! The reset is still there, it’s just the baseline 5%! Dropping from 15% to 5% does seem pretty rough for a melee focused build though, and I still reiterate that this is less than ideal. That said, I’m way less concerned than I was when reading the notes, and very excited to try this out!

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I still cannot tell if the Awakened Jadefire tooltip is incorrect, or if they intentionally dropped the 10% RSK reset chance entirely. The included the additional BoK strikes, but the tooltip does not mention anything about resetting RSK.

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Yesterday’s patchnote for MW is crossing out the 100% buff to CJL?

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Please buff back the basic damage of crackling jade lightning. It does NOTHING right now. Instead of nerfing both the base damage and jade empowerment to 800% why arent you just nerfing the talent? So CJL would do just a bit of damage at least. A synergy with soothing mist to give stack like Calming Coalescence was doing but for CJL damage would be cool also.

If it is a problem with endless draught, why not making it NOT stack like it does now for like +2000% damage.

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not sure which ur referring to, pve or pvp, but caster mistweaver is and will always be the OG “real” mw spec, people are afraid of having to cast and use skill instead of mindlessly pressing tiger palm blackout and rising sun. fistweaving is braindead af

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agree with this, CJL needs to do something, if i were to test on a isle of dorn enemy and use CJL to kill it only, it would literally take 2minutes. why can every other healer in pvp have extensive tools for damage except caster mw? the easiest answer to this is buffing CJL, its a long channel which is susceptible to interrupts, just buff its baseline damage and let us do a big empowered channel with TFT.

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this is the biggest longshot in mw history but bonedust brew was the best thing thats ever happened to mw in pvp, but it got removed cus the majority of wows population are pve’ers, but man. it was SOOO satisfying and good to press. it would proc the fattest gust of mist and top someone instanly with just 1 renewing, combined with bonedust proc and brews would be flying everywhere. ID LOVEEEEEEEE it if bonedust returned but i know its unlikely with the direction you guys are heading which makes me sad. Fistweavers and faeline instead of caster and bonedust is such a sad timeline that occurred because of dungeon lovers… sigh… sheiluns is a awful button, it was in legion, and is now. its long, kickable, and underwhelming. bonedust was in its place and it was the most fun ability mw has ever had. its a shame that pve’ers stole and ruined my spec ive been playing for 12 years.

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No way that went live when coupled with the +1000% damage from TFT unfortunately.

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Just going to leave this here…

MONK

  • Mistweaver
    • Tiger’s Lust now also grants 3 seconds of immunity to movement impairing effects.

PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER

MONK

  • Mistweaver

    • New PVP Talent: Corroding Mists - Vivify deals 25% of its healing as Nature damage to enemies within 5 yards of its target.

    • New PVP Talent: Run Like The Wind - Movement speed increased by 5%. Soothing Mist can now be channeled while moving.