Great to remove the degenerate Spellsligner gameplay. This would feel better coming with reset rather than 2 months down the line however.
Frost is in a very bad position talent wise, as the only spec in the game with no choice nodes, and the least number of nodes in its tree of any spec as well. There is just a massive lack of build diversity. Current spellslinger even when spamming ice lance for 20-30s straight at times still has GS as a 5% dps loss to drop, simply because there are no other talents that do anything in ST. The rest of our 3rd gate is bloated with AOE talents and frostbolt talents. Which are incredibly hard to justify out of niche scenarios.
We need some design love to evolve the current frost playstyle and its issue of proc bloat (massively overcapping fof in aoe especially - frost bomb from WOD), lack of build variety for playstyle options in ST/AOE (a non-gs variant and hopefully something new - AOE could use the GS tier set from s3/4 of DF as that was widely loved by people that enjoy GS), the fact every new spell added tanks our mastery value (frostfire/spellslinger new effects were never added to it) and as such it should just be frozen damage.
This spec got a great rework that made it very fun to play. Even after that however its had the persistent issue of talent diversity and build variety that needs to be solved for it to be in a healthy place.
2 Likes
In agreement with the post above. Throughout alpha and beta, the frost community realized our talent tree was getting left behind others in modernity. We have the least number of unique nodes and no choice nodes. This leads to a complete lack of choice in the tree. This problem was tabled to focus on more immediate designs like getting the hero specs refined and ready for launch.
However, now that we are here, we should look to giving the frost tree design attention for the .5 patch. I would focus on these main points to truly put the frost tree in an exciting space:
- Add a variety of new talents in gate 2 and 3 including choice nodes
- Reconsider the frostbolt talents for ones that build off ice lance and flurry
- Bake in interesting choices to consider for AoE and ST scenarios
I would highly recommend adding a capstone to GS, as an idea also mentioned above the DF S3/S4 tier set that created an AoE shatter effect for GS was highly successful and popular.
1 Like
Adding my support that Frost is now at a point where it needs a full rework as tinkering around the edges will no longer be sufficient with fixing the structural issues with the spec.
Frost has no build variety and no choice-nodes at all; players have no choice in what talents we select and there are poor interactions with the Hero trees. All of the feedback players provided in Beta stating we did not want the Frostbolt-centric capstone talents and that many mandatory talents needed baselining were left unheard.
Frost had almost no meaningful changes going into TWW and to see no proposed changes incoming in 11.0.5 while other classes are getting yet another rework is disappointing.
Issues that need attention:
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Addressing the bloating and devaluation of FoF, particularly in AoE. Frost really needs a way to spend FoF in AoE outside of IL, as there’s just too many required actions in AoE that push FoF to last priority.
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Baselining of the mandatory talents: FoF, Shatter, BF, Perpetual Winter, Hailstones.
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Mastery is becoming worse given the Hero tree talents/spells are not included in Mastery, and this will continue to get worse as more Hero talents are added in the future.
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A viable option for players to spec out of GS. And for GS to get an AoE-based talent, like the DF tier set.
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Removal of the reticule from Blizzard. Either Blizzard should work like Starfall or at least cast on our target.
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Updated visuals on Ice Barrier, Cone of Cold, Blizzard.
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Removal/revision of the Frostbolt-centric talents (Cold Front, Death’s Chill, Fractured Frost, Slick Ice) and other dead/problematic talents (Deep Shatter, Frostbite, Subzero). I think it’s time for Ray of Frost to be retired as it’s increasingly not interacting with the spec nor the Hero trees.
2 Likes
Frost definitely needs a spec tree rework and possibly even a minor rework on the hero trees as well. The spec tree is extremely dated and although it played well in Dragonflight post rework, it was being held together by bandaids and duct tape.
It was very sad to see it get very little attention in TWW and the little attention it did get, was something hideous in the form of Death’s Chill and reworked Fractured Frost. Of all the things to be brought back, the Shadowlands playstyle was definitely one of the worst possible choices. Most of these talents that have anything to do with Frostbolt should be removed.
For Spellslinger, Signature Spell is a start but they’ve forgotten about Ray of Frost that should be generating splinters as well and with the removal of Winter’s Chill from Splinterstorm, it would be nice if Spellfrost Teachings auto launched the orb like the arcane version. Both hero trees also need something to help with Frost’s mastery unless the mastery itself gets reworked.
Mage in general could do with a nice vfx upgrade but Frost is definitely the one that needs it the most. The funny part is that there are plenty of NPCs with similar spells with much better visuals. Jaina’s Glacial Ray should’ve been our Ray of Frost.
I disagree with removing Ray of Frost. It just needs a small rework and visual upgrade but I wouldn’t want to get rid of it altogether. The Fingers of Frost could be pruned from it and made to do something else or just buff its baseline damage. We really don’t need more Fingers of Frost as we are.
1 Like