Hello all! This thread contains feedback about latest Elemental changes, points some remaining issues with the spec and its hero trees and provides potential solutions to them. This feedback would be split into initially hidden subsections for better readability.
Elemental Shaman feedback
While some changes were positive, Elemental Shaman still has many uinaddressed issues - Maelstrom generation issues, mobility issues, its talent tree does not support stated design goals enough, contains several undertuned or too niche talents etc. These issues should be looked at separately from damage tuning and would be analyzed below.
1. Maelstrom generation issues
Latest nerfs to base generation combined with removal of Flow of Power made Maelstrom generation both in single-target and AoE too slow and reduced viability of talents that are based on spenders like Surge of Power and Storm’s Frenzy. That can lead to too repetitive gameplay and should be addressed.
Suggestion: Buff base Maelstrom generation of spells or return Flow of Power talent to Elemental talent tree.
2. Mobility issues
Elemental Shamans’s mobility was significally reduced and that can cause issues both in PVE (which is heavily based on swirling mechanics lately) and PVP (where Ele is already frequently trained by melee comps). Spiritwalker’s Grace and additional Lava Surge from Primordial Wave are something, but they likely are not enough. As a result, there should be more mobility options in the tree and they should support both lava and lightning builds. Best candidate for tweaking is Storm’s Frenzy - it is undertuned (its 30% cast time reduction is small compared to things like Destruction Warlock’s Backdraft stacks that are given much more frequently) and attached to spenders that after all the nerfs to Maelstrom generation happen much less frequently now, so should provide according strong effect.
Suggestion: Buff Storm’s Frenzy to make affected spell instant cast and make it a choice node with Windspeaker’s Lava Resurgence that would instead provide a Lava Surge stack after using a Maelstrom spender. Such choice node 1) helps with mobility for both lightning, lava and weaver builds 2) provides limited access to instant cast Tempest for Stormbringers and 3) makes value of Storm’s Frenzy better match its reduced frequency of occuring.
3. Lack of support for stated design goals
Stated design goals for Elemental Shaman were providing access to viable lightning build, lava build and weaver build. Currently its tree decently supports only third type - lava builds lack spell usages (especially after Ascendance change that removed Lava Beam and spammable Lava Burst), lightning builds lack thematic spells and still need to use Flame Shock and Lava Burst and only weaver playstyle is represented decently with synergies like Master of the Elements, Power of the Maelstrom etc. As such, if design goals for Elemental Shamans remain the same there should be more support for dedicated lava and ligtning builds and here is the analysis of minimum needed for that.
3.1 Themed builders
Lightning builds - already have Lightning Bolt as single-target builder and Chain Lightning as AoE builder.
Lava builds - have Lava Burst as limited single-target builder and no AoE builder after change to Ascendance that removed Lava Beam.
Solution: Create a choice node in Elemental tree between node that would boost both lightning builders and node that would boost single-target builder for lava builds (Lava Burst) and enable AoE builder for lava builds (Lava Beam).
Suggestion: Make a choice node between returned Unrelenting Calamity (reduces cast time of Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning and Tempest by X%) and Lava Affinity (reduces cooldown of Lava Burst and replaces Chain Lightning with Lava Beam with Lava Beam tuned if needed to account for being spammable). For better synergies Lava Beam could also be affected by Lava Surge (getting instant cast and maybe even guaranteed crit against targets with Flame Shock active only when consuming Lava Surge) - that would provide more value for Lava Surge stacks even in AoE situations. Such choice node 1) enables improved builders for both lightning and lava builds 2) helps with lack of spell usages for lava builds via reducing base cooldown of Lava Burst and 3) provides option for reduced cast time for lightning builds for people who don’t enjoy long lightning casts. Weaver builds can take any of these options and pick the one that suits their playstyle more.
3.2 Themed spenders
Lightning builds - have Earth Shock as Nature damage single-target spender and Elemental Blast as elemental damage spender, but their theme is not very fitting for lightning builds and has no Nature damage AoE spender.
Lava builds - have only Elemental Blast as compatible spender and no dedicated Fire damage single-target and AoE spenders.
Solution: Create a choice node in Elemental tree that would provide access to themed spenders for both lightning and lava builds. Since adding entirely new abilties can require a lot of rebalancing and synergies remaking, easier solution could be for this node to tweak existing spenders to according damage type and visual and still keep their existing synergies in the tree.
Suggestion: Create a choice node between Volcanic Infusion (turns Earth Shock and Earthquake to Fire damage, adds volcanic visuals to them and increases their and Elemental Blast damage by X%) and Storm Infusion (turns Earthquake to Nature damage, adds storm visuals to Earth Shock and Earthquake and increases their and Elemental Blast damage by X%). Such choice node could replace existing node Earthshatter that already provides similar effect without damage type conversion and would achieve several goals - 1) provide themed spenders for both lightning and lava builds and 2) address lack of synergy between Earthquake’s physical damage and multiple nodes in all trees that boost either Fire, Frost or Nature damage. Weaver builds could take either of these options or even skip this choice node if they would want to.
3.3 Themed damage over time effect and its spread
Lightning builds - don’t have a themed damage over time effect currently. While Flame Shock does Volcanic (Fire + Nature) damage and is compatible with them, its theme is entirely different.
Lava builds - have Flame Shock and Liquid Magma Totem that are compatible mechanically and thematically, but still have issues that should be addressed - no longer necessary cooldown for Flame Shock, limited target cap for Liquid Magma Totem and it applying Flame Shock to already affected enemies instead of unaffected etc.
Solution: Add a themed lightning damage over time effect as a choice node with one of Flame Shock related talents and address existing issues with Flame Shock and Liquid Magma Totem.
Suggestions:
- Remove cooldown from Flame Shock for Elemental Shamans. Since it is already target capped and proc rate of Lava Surge from multiple affected enemies was already nerfed, this cooldown is just harmful and slows down Elemental’s AoE ramp-up when other classes with damage over time effects usually can just spam them if needed.
- Tweak Liquid Magma Totem to apply Flame Shock to 4-5 targets and prioritize enemies that are not affected yet. Such tweak would allow to apply Flame Shock to 6 enemies via LMT + Primordial Wave (+manual Flame Shock if LMT applied it to 4 targets) and make Elemental’s AoE ramp-up faster and better.
- Make Liquid Magma Totem a choice node with Storm Shock - lightning based damage over time effect that could have similar mechanics to Dathea the Ascended’s ability and auto spread every X seconds to unaffected enemies within range up to its target cap. Storm Shock could also deal a bit more base damage than Flame Shock (to account for damage loss from Liquid Magma Totem itself) and would both provide an alternative damage over time and alternative spread mechanism for it for Elemental Shamans and a thematic effect for lightning builds / Stormbringers. Accordingly Storm Shock should also keep all the synergies of Flame Shock like stacking Magma Chamber, proccing effects etc. Weaver builds could take any of the options based on their preferences or playstyle.
3.4 Themed minor offensive cooldown
Lightning builds - have Stormkeeper, but it became too mandatory for all builds with its relocation in the tree and could be addressed.
Lava builds - have Primordial Wave which is decent.
Suggestions:
- Move Stormkeeper to a more optional position in the tree, for example to the right where it would still be right above its upgrade node. Its current position in the tree could be replaced by a generally useful node like suggested above choice node between Unrelenting Calamity and Lava Affinity.
- Add Tempest to list of spells that reduce cooldown of Stormkeeper via Herald of the Storms for better synergies.
3.5 Themed major offensive cooldown
Both lightning and lava builds can now use Ascendance, but it still has contradictions with both builds - for lightning builds it is still too lava themed and procs lava abilities and for lava builds it provides guaranteed overloads that are more fitting for storm builds and no longer provides better access to their main builder spells. All of these issues could be addressed.
Solution: Create a choice node between lava themed Flame Ascendance (with lava visuals and effects) and lightning themed Storm Ascendance (with lightning visuals and effects).
Suggestion: Make Ascendance a choice node between Flame Ascendance and Storm Ascendance.
Flame Ascendance - Transform into a Flame Ascendant for X seconds, instantly casting a Flame Shock and Lava Burst at up to 6 nearby enemies. While ascended, your Lava Burst has no cooldown and Lava Burst, Lava Beam, Flame Shock and Maelstrom spenders deal X% increased damage.
Comment: This effect is similar to old Ascendance which is much more fitting for lava builds than guaranteed and empowered overloads, but has several differences. First - it does not scale Lava Burst damage with crit chance, which should be a separate talent in general tree and available for all 3 Shaman specs. Second - it now increases damage not only of Lava Burst, but also Lava Beam (which is enabled by Lava Affinity), Flame Shock and Maelstrom spenders / Elemental Blast, so instead of just spamming Lava Burst lava builds can continue using appropriate for situation / target count spells and more diverse rotations.
or
Storm Ascendance - Transform into a Storm Ascendant for X seconds, instantly hitting up to 6 enemies with lightning bolts for Y% of Spell Power Nature damage and applying Storm Shock to them (if it is learnt) or Flame Shock (if Storm Shock is not learnt). While ascended, Elemental Overload damage is increased by N% and spells affected by your Mastery: Elemental Overload cause 1 additional Elemental Overload.
Comment: This version has similar effect to new Ascendance, but procs lightning abilities and damage over time effect if it is learnt for better theme and compatibility with lightning builds.
Such choice node would allow both lava and lightning builds to pick a suitable and themed major offensive cooldown and play with it. Weaver builds can use any of these based on their preferences and playstyle. As for Deeply Rooted Elements - it could just trigger the learnt version of Ascendance for better compatibility.
These 5 checkboxes should provide minimum required to enable themed lightning and lava builds in the tree and still keep weaver builds accessible and relevant, since they can use any of the options based on their preferences and playstyle. Choice nodes related to them also allow both lava and lightning builds to progress through same nodes without feeling that they take a redundant talent and allow to avoid overbloat of the tree.
4. Undertuned / too niche / not competitive enough / improvable talents
Aside from mentioned above, some talents in Elemental tree are undertuned or have strange positioning or mechanics that could be improved. These include:
Summon Fire / Storm Elemental - was likely overnerfed and with removal of Skybreaker’s Fiery Demise their contribution might become too low. Their base cooldown also still desynchronizes with other cooldowns and now they have too limited uptime and that could be addressed.
Suggestion: Take sample from Mage’s Water Elemental and just make Summon Fire / Storm Elemental have 30 seconds duration and 2 minute base cooldown and if needed tune their damage or cooldown reduction effects to compensate. These numbers are not just to bring them in line with Water Elemental though - 2 min base cooldown would better align with 60 sec cooldowns and Ascendance and 30 seconds duration would allow to make good use of Fire Elemental during empowered Flame Shock (36+ seconds duration from Fire Elemental’s bonus) or Storm Elemental for resetting Stormkeeper faster with its Haste bonus boosted spells.
Elemental Unity - is useful for both lightning and lava builds, but is gated behind 2 Lava Burst related talents that might be not needed for lightning builds. These Lava Burst talents also have an issue that you are required to pick Echo of the Elements to reach Master of the Elements and that reduces build diversity. All of these issues could be addressed simultaneously.
Suggestion: Move Elemental Unity to current position of Echo of the Elements, move Echo of the Elements 1 row below (to the left from Master of the Elements) and make both EoTE and MoTE as path options to Flames of the Cauldron. Such changes 1) make Elemental Unity more accessible for both lightning and lava builds and without necessity to take Lava Burst talents 2) make Elemental Unity directly connected to Summon Fire / Storm Elemental node itself and 3) allow to pick between EoTE and MoTE (or both) as pathing options for lava builds and improve build diversitty.
Flash of Lightning - is a lightning focused talent that is required to access Icefury even for lava themed builds. That could be addressed.
Suggestion: Swap it with some generally useful for both lava and lightning builds talent, for example with Eye of the Storm.
Icefury - as a proc can be decent, but is unreliable and some people miss possibility to control its application. There is a decent compromise for people who like and people who don’t like it being a proc - Icefury as a passive proc could become a choice node with Icefury as an active instant ability with X seconds cooldown and similar effect, so that players can pick the preferred option and play with it. Its proc should also trigger from Lava Beam if it is implemented as lava builds AoE builder like suggested above.
Flux Melting - should also affect Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning to improve synergy between Icefury and lightning builds and Lava Beam if it is implemented.
Improved Flametongue Weapon - is attached to a similar 1 hour buff as Lightning Conduit and is just its analogue for other damage type, so accordingly should provide similar base value to it (8%). It also now has strange position where it requires fully upgraded Stormkeeper to be taken which might be not very fitting for lava builds. Consider moving it to a more accessible spot like above Everlasting Elements - there it would be unlocked by Lava Burst related talents and more accessible.
Eye of the Storm - is undertuned, especially for a third gate talent and makes cost of Maelstrom spenders desynchronize with both Maelstrom spent based effects like Tempest and Maelstrom bar cap. To address both these issues - consider buffing it to 10 / 15 cost reduction which would both make it provide better value and would make cost of spenders align with both Tempest (300 cost with 50 / 75 spenders cost) and Maelstrom bar cap (100/150 cap which aligns with 50 / 75 spenders cost).
Earthen Rage - is still undertuned even after post-buff and needs a bigger buff.
Mountains Will Fall - is still undertuned after Mastery change and even Ascendance change did not address that much. Should provide full value overloads for affected spells and could also include Frost Shock to improve synergy between Mastery builds and Icefury.
Echoes of the Great Sundering - can be decent, but not all Shamans enjoy spenders weaving playstyle, especially since Maelstrom generation was nerfed and by the time you can use empowered Earthquake pack can already be dead. As such, it could use a choice node alternative to represent AoE capstone talent as a choice.
Suggestion: Make Echoes of the Great Sundering a choice node with Seismic Eruption that would make Earthquake create an additional initial burst of damage when dropped, dealing X% of Spell Power damage to enemies in the area. This damage could have same damage type as Earthquake and have similar chance to overload to improve the synergies. Such choice option both provides alternative for people who don’t enjoy Echoes of the Great Sundering and helps address issue where Earthquake can have diminished value against packs that are actively moving (like chasing the tank) and would provide additional initial damage to get more value from Earthquake in such cases. This effect is also based on Azerite trait from Battle For Azeroth expansion, so similar effect already exists in the game and does not require much implementation.
Deeply Rooted Elements - changing it to trigger from Maelstrom spenders and be compatible with all kinds of builds is decent, but proc chance is too low, since Maelstrom spenders are used much less frequently than previous trigger Lava Burst. Its proc chance should be buffed.
Erupting Lava - its idea is interesting, but mechanic can be a bit off. Firstly, reducing duration of Flame Shock can be detrimental in some situations like AoE, where ending it early can remove Lava Surge procs and AoE application ability Liquid Magma Totem can still be on cooldown. Secondly, it is not that much of damage increase since damage done is still equal to damage that Flame Shock would likely have done anyway, just over larger period of time. As such, it could use a bit of redesign with that in mind.
Suggestion: Replace Flame Shock consumption effect with Lava Burst just additionally dealing X% of its damage over Y seconds with this damage over time stacking with itself (to prevent overlaps with overloads and further Lava Burst casts). Such effect is based on Dragonflight Season 3 tier set, was mostly positively received and does not have drawbacks as Flame Shock consumption does.
Unleash Shield PVP talent - was overnerfed and is not competitive enough with other PVP talents currently, especially after addition of Shamanism to Elemental. Unleash Shield could use a boost for competitiveness.
Suggestion: Increase root duration from Unleash Earth Shield to 3 seconds. That is still lower value than pre-nerf and would extend period of respite for Elemental which can be useful against melee cleaves that now would train Elemental Shamans even more and can make this PVP talent more competitive.
Counterstrike Totem PVP talent - is not competitive enough too and provides too polarized value - it can be immediately noticed and destroyed in low scale PVP providing close to no value and can be not noticed for some time in large scale PVP and wreac havoc there. It should be tweaked to provide more reliable and less polarized value and that can also make it more generally useful and competitive.
Suggestion: Significally increase its health, but reduce backlash value to compensate. Such change would allow to use it as punishing / breathing room tool akin to Druid’s Thorns and get value from either making enemies focus totem first and getting a bit of breathing room or punishing them if they would continue attacking the Shaman.
Elemental Stormbringer feedback
This hero spec was improved in 11.0.5, but still has unaddressed issues and potential improvements, especially for Elemental Shamans. Some of them are analyzed and suggested below.
1. More support for lightning builds
While tree provides some passive improvements and even additional ability, it does not provide enough support for pure lightning builds - they still often have to use Lava Burst and Flame Shock for their effects and synergies. Flame Shock issue was addressed with Storm Shock suggestion above, but Stormbringer could also provide additional support for making Lava Burst more compatible with lightning builds.
Suggestion: Make one of its offensive nodes a choice node with talent that would turn Lava Burst into Storm Burst, turning its damage to Nature damage, increasing it by X% and changing its animation to for example ball lightning (like those used by Warcraft 3 Shamans, but larger). Such option would allow people who want to play lightning build to get more support and synergies for it, but would be optional, so that people who don’t want that can just take the alternative option in choice node.
2. Tempest issues
Many issues with Tempest were already addressed, but some remain - it is still badly trackable, can overlap from manual and Awakening Storms generation leading to lost usages, its usage is very delayed and it can still disrupt Stormkeeper rotations. These issues could be addressed too.
Suggestions:
- Make Tempest buff stackable to 2 and increase its duration to 1 minute (like Glacial Spike has). These changes would allow to both prevent lost usages from overlapping between manual generation and Awakening Storms and make use of Tempest even if it procced at the end of encounter via allowing to more reliably carry it to the next one.
- Make Tempest’s icon appear on character UI bar when it is enabled and also show number of its stacks. Such change would make it easier to notice and track.
- Consider adding a mechanism for early usage similar to Sunfury Spellfire Spheres like “after spending X seconds out of combat you generate storm clouds above you, enabling usage of Tempest at the beginning of next combat”. Such mechanism would be thematic and allow to sometimes use Tempest at the beginning of combat and get benefits from it immediately instead of being delayed or even when pack is already dying or dead.
- Consider making Tempest replace Earth Shock / Elemental Blast instead of Lightning Bolt. That would be in line with Enhancement version that also replaces a spender, would allow to prevent disruptions of Stormkeeper rotations and might even keep the flow, since after spending Maelstrom on a spender you are unlikely to have Maelstrom to use a spender again anyway and even if Aftershock procs or Tempest is enabled by Awakening Storms delaying next spender to be used after Tempest can be acceptable.
3. Undertuned / too niche / improvable talents
Stormbringer’s tree still has several talents that are undertuned or very niche or have mechanics that can be sometimes redundant / harmful or improved. These include:
Unlimited Power (for Elemental) - provides too low value, since they spend Maelstrom much less frequently than Enhancement spends MSW stacks. Could be buffed for Elemental Stormbringers.
Rolling Thunder - its bonus is hard to track, unreliable and can overlap and be negated by manual Stormkeeper stacks. Consider changing it to just provide 1 additional stack to manual Stormkeeper and increasing duration of its stacks to 20-25 seconds (to give time to utilize third stack) - such bonus is much more reliable, trackable and has additional synergies with other Elemental Shaman’s talents like Herald of the Storms.
Surging Currents - new version is more compatible with Enhancement, but worse for Elemental since it does not provide much value for them and attempting to cast that heal can be disrupted. Consider tweaking it for Elemental Stormbringers only to also make affected spell instant cast (and 20% bonus could be kept to replace removed nullified mana cost).
Awakening Storms - can be decent, but is likely not powerful enough for a capstone hero talent. Many Elemental and Enhancement Shamans also miss having access to whirlwind / tornado like effects and this tree seems like a fitting place for them. Both issues could be addressed simultaneously.
Suggestion: Make Tempest generated by Awakening Storms additionally create a whirlwind around affected target, dealing additional Nature damage over time to target and other enemies within area. Such effect is thematic for storm related tree, provides access to whirlwind / tornado like effect, makes Awakening Storms better and more fitting for capstone value and if needed can be easily tuned with numbers for both Awakening Storms lightning procs and generated whirlwind.
Elemental Farseer feedback
This tree was improved, but still has issues that can affect gameplay and should be addressed like behaviour of Ancestors, undetuned nodes etc. Some of these issues and suggestions for them are mentioned below.
1. Ancestors behaviour
Even after all the tweaks Ancestors behaviour can be still problematic - they can attack enemies entirely different from Shaman (which reduces their priority damage value) and they don’t do anything if Shaman does not or cannot do anything (like when being crowd controlled). Since Ancestors are mandatory summons for Farseer and many Farseer mechanics are based on them, their behaviour could be improved.
Suggestion: Make Ancestors prioritize current appropriate target of Shaman (if any) for their spells and make them have default behaviour and spell that they would use if Ancestors did not do any actions for X seconds and even if Shaman does not / cannot do anything. For example, Elemental’s Ancestors in such case could throw a Lava Burst on their own into Shaman’s currently targeted enemy if any or enemy nearby if there is no such target or target is affected by a breakable crowd control like Hex and Restoration’s Ancestors in such case on their own could use Healing Surge at Shaman’s currently targeted wounded ally if any or Shaman / nearest wounded ally if there is no such targeted ally. Such mechanism would not affect their rotations if they are actively duplicating Shaman’s spells (since it requires X seconds being idle) and would just help with situations where Shaman is forced to move / inactive or is crowd controlled.
2. Undertuned / too niche / improvable talents
Elemental Farseer’s tree also contains several talents that are undertuned or too niche and could be improved. These include:
Latent Wisdom - while its value is comparable to Ancient Fellowship, it is still a bit undertuned since it does not provide additional cooldown reduction of Elementals / Riptide and additional spells that can have additional effects to damage like Elemental Blast. As such, its value should be a bit higher than Ancient Fellowship and could be buffed.
Primordial Capacity - provides too low and niche value for Elemental Farseers, since they already have a talent to increase Maelstrom cap (and that talent also provides throughput increase). As such, it could get an additional bonus akin to Restoration Farseer’s version to become more generally useful.
Suggestion: Make Elemental Stormbringer’s Primordial Capacity in addition to current effect also increase Shaman’s Maelstrom generation by X%.
If you have additional suggestions, you can post them in the comments. Thank you for reading!
Links to other Shaman specializations posts:
Enhancement Shaman - 11.0.5 Enhancement Shaman Feedback and Suggestions
Restoration Shaman - 11.0.5 Restoration Shaman Feedback And Suggestions