As an organised raider, it’s immeasurably more satisfying looking at the loot we earned, rather than the single piece I earned. Anyone who’s ever complained about item passovers were either underperforming or plain didn’t deserve it.
Bring back Master Loot.
I think that’s a bit of an overstatement. With enough luck and playtime, someone who does mythic +10 and caps those rewards and only does heroic raids can obtain a mythic raid ilvl, but its still easier for mythic raiders to get the same ilvl or higher.
A big part is what you consider casual play, is everything aside from mythic raid casual? I think its fine for mythic + to reward similar or same ilvl gear as mythic raiding, but I think you’re hard pressed to find people who are 400+ilvl overall and truly only do casual content (warfront, wq, emissary) of course that depends on your definition of casual content. I don’t consider heroic raids casual content, not that I think they’re difficult, but above what I would consider casual, same as m+)
![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
That question seems a bit loaded. Does the player that raids 4 hours a week also play 20 hours a week like the other player?
I mean to me it feels like raiding normal and heroic is kind of pointless unless you are just wanting one extra chance at raid-level gear because it is pretty easy to get that level of gear doing other things. I’m sure that’s the intent, but yeah.
Getting passed over on loot repeatedly feels fine when you are the most geared person in the raid, and terrible when you are the least geared person in the raid. Sorry but your bait isn’t going to work on guild leaders, raid leaders, etc that were doing loot right.
This is pretty much correct. I don’t have time nor do i want to do some of the content you must do in order to raid. Used to be raiding was all you needed and maybe a mythic plus here or there to compliment your raiding. I don’t like Islands at all, I have fallen asleep doing warfronts multiple times and I don’t have time for a hard rep grind anymore. I am a hardcore casual for lack of better word and it just doesn’t work in BFA to be that. While I may not raid 16 hours a week like I used to do I still have that raider mentality which is hard to shake.
So in your case, is your concern is more about the loot system and less about WF/TF?
Also, I understand where you are coming from as an organized raider. How much do you feel we should consider the play styles of others when it comes to rewards? We really try to cover a wide range of play styles and how concerned are you with what items those other people have?
If you’re not doing Heroic / Mythic Raiding or high Tier Mythic+, you shouldn’t be geared out, like you are doing said content.
In the past month or so it is very unusual to get anything Titan-Forged or War-Forged. .As for Guilds -so Blizzard no longer caters to this community. Now you feel the disappointment so many others that do not raid or belong to a community has felt for years. It may be an unfortunate situation for Guild Based Players but for the overall player based it’s been a breath of fresh air. Progress doesn’t mean everyone is going to benefit from the onslaught or new way of playing . Waiting is your best bet…I’m sure Blizzard has not forgot the Raiding Community waiting has been the raiders downfall in so many expansions. Get a grip and go sit awhile or better yet go out and enjoy the other possibility the in game content has to offer.
To further clarify: “effort” is a mix of both time spent and difficulty. Someone who spends 20 hours questing, in my mind, is putting in less effort than someone who spends 4 hours of raiding.
How does it feel to get passed over multiple times on the same item? It sucks. I mean, obviously. And we occasionally had guild members quit over that. And it would happen to us as officers too as well as to raiders. But when they ask us about it, we can say, 100% of the time, this is why. This person shows up to twice as many raids as you. This person does double your damage. Or, hey, I know you wanted that piece, but this person hasn’t seen anything in two months and you got something last week. Sometimes the answer is just, hey, we thought you were equally deserving, so the two of you rolled. The vast majority of the time, players were happy with these answers. It was clear that we weren’t just using a lottery system.
The other way to answer that is to ask a counter question, well how does it feel when the game either gives you the same piece of crap loot, or just doesn’t give you loot at all?
I wouldn’t say everything else gives “flatline blue gear” (although blue as an item quality is barely even used), but mythic plus and organized raiding should be a cut above the rest. Activities that require a player-made group are more challenging than those that don’t and should always be a cut above in item level as well. Certainly, it doesn’t feel very rewarding to spend time in a mythic raid, and when the next raid is released, to be able to find better gear in a pug setting.
Time doesn’t matter. Demonstrated skill does. More time can improve that, but the rate of improvement is different from everyone. There should be no cases where someone with inferior skill, or someone doing an inferior (skill-required-wise) activity should be better geared than someone who exclusively does something at or above the maximum demonstrated skill of someone else.
Ergo, if everyone in my raid’s “hardest completed content” is the heroic raid, no one should be ahead of anyone else, regardless of how much time they put in. They’re doing the same maximum difficulty.
This is a crappy mentality to have. “Well, someone else had it bad, but now you have it bad, so it’s good for me”. Bad juju.
I have a grip. But I also have every right to call Blizzard out on a fail. Sacrificing things like master looter and guild community in favor of more RNG which is this entire expansion’s foundation is bad. Which they admitted at Blizzcon, saying they swung far too heavily in the direction of RNG.
I’m assuming by geared out you’re talking 405+ ilvl since that’s the low end for Mythic raiders.
Got a few links to people above that Ilvl without heroic or M+ gear?
What?!
This guild is built on player interaction, you play an MMO to interact with others rather than playing by yourself in a single player game. That is the main point.
Yet, you are bashing GUILDs like its some 5 letter word? Being apart of a community is the whole point of the game. The idea that you want to dissuade “Guild based players” just blows my mind. That is this game. There are single player games if you dislike that. My enjoyment of this game is based a lot on the community I surround myself with. If there is no community I don’t play.
It all relates to each other. With master loot I was totally fine with warforged and titanforged. The reason being because my guild used DKP based on attendance and raid performance. I knew that if I performed well and showed up for raid I would have a chance to get the best gear. In BFA I have a issues with titanforged and warforged. Now a player can come into the raid with lesser attendance or not perform as well and just get lucky and get a titanforged item while you have been there for the guild every raid night and have nothing. With master loot I am totally fine with the system, without it I am 100% against it.
1st just want to say happy to see you showing up and engaging with the community in this way - helping flesh out the conversation and getting the root of the topic. You said you would, but its nice to see you follow through.
As a casual its an interesting conversation… I have yet to understand how my one or 2 pieces of heroic level forged pieces creates a problem for someone fully geared in heroic gear (or higher if their gear forges).
But there is an imbalance - and its not created by forging as much as it is the overall gearing system - I would say the high ilvl available from warfronts and WQs and the comparatively lower ilvl path from M+ in particular.
Overall the ilvl system feels really wacky and unbalanced.
This starts with the questing gear - which you will outlevel before even finishing the 3 faction zones, the rep vendor gear which you will outlevel before you even get the rep, the gear drops in heroic dungeons which you can outlevel by running a few WQs, warfronts and a LFR wing…
Unless you are progressing mythic raids (or high keys) its almost too easy to outgear the content and the rewards from the content you are running - it creates a certain lack of engagement for me as a casual player - i’m unlikely to find the time or energy to commit to pushing high keys or higher than normal raiding.
As a whole, the gearing in BfA just feels wonky. Its too much too fast and I think it does devalue those pushing higher progression a bit.
But the way ilvl combat scaling works I think has kind of made this necessary. Maybe it will feel more natural in last tier, but overall the near 200-ilvl spread between hitting BfA content and highest raid rewards just doesn’t feel natural or rewarding (in the sense that “effort=reward”)
You’re focusing on the Mythic part, when I stated Heroic / Mythic. So, get that right because a Heroic Raider, low end, is 380. I can link guildies that have gotten trinkets from World Quests that has titanforged from 370 to 400.
It’s a mix of both the loot system and forging. Personal loot is random. War/titanforging is random. Together, they make loot feel random. I think this is what people refer to when they say loot is “too random.” And even if it’s a rare occasion that someone gets an absolutely amazing item from non-organized content, we have the capability to interact with a lot of players. Rare events aren’t that rare. Something that happens 1 in 1000 times doesn’t seem that rare when you can come across thousands of players.
Look, we’re not saying ignore other players. At least, I’m not saying that. We’re not even saying that only raiding and M+ should have epics. But if a player isn’t doing any organized content at all, they should naturally have a slower item progression with a lower item cap. Exalted reputation rewards are great for the casual player. You got exalted with the faction grind this patch? Great, have a slot of normal-quality raid gear. Meanwhile, I the heroic raider got that shoulder enchantment at revered. Even LFR rewards are okay, but keep them in line. Normal and heroic raiders should NEVER want to do the next tier’s LFR for an item level upgrade.
I don’t know anyone that would let you into Heroic raid with 380 gear.
We all can’t have it the way we want. Some people have to wait and now it’s the Raiders…What is the problem with that. I believe calling Blizzard out is a waste of your time. There has been calling out ever since the game began 2004. If Blizzard felt the need to balance things out of course some players are going to get their panties in bind. Anticipation is something the Raider is not use too. That seems to be a major problem in this thread.
380 is definitely not the low end for a heroic raider after this many weeks of 400 ilvl gear being available.
I also don’t care about people getting lucky procs on 1-2 pieces of gear when it’s overall level + azerite that really drives your throughput.