They just nerfed sub again because of our damage in short windows. How they have ended up DESIGNING us. So they nerf us again based on that lol. I’m at a loss on what they’re doing. I tried fighting a warrior yesterday and the amount of defensives he had to SELF HEAL my own damage and negate it was absurd. I don’t know why I play rogue anymore with more nerfs coming
Dance donkey cannot be balanced. Dark shadow design since legion has been riding this cycle over and over again and it is truly exhausting.
Forget technique and flagellation anyway but nerfing us again by dark shadow isnt cool when the other 2 were the problem.
This dance donkey style ultimately needs the boot. Every expansion shows more evidence dark shadow needs to freaking go and the whole bUrST garbage
Any lobby where there are ape classes dh / ret / enhance/ warrior / monk / dk , you are waiting on drs and hitting what we can. Meanwhile, they all CONTINUE doing damage AFTER their “burst” for nearly identical damage during their windows.
Why the freak do we have no sustain? Why are we locked in dark shadow again and again and again when it obviously gets tuned down.
Heck in pve your whole team does Full damage and you are once again a 6-8 sec hero.
Back to wod / cata style rogue, that’s all this rework / new talents need to mimic. Really tired of this nonsense.
They already can pve and run around doing 27-34k in arena consistently and actually play the game while us Subtlety rogues are waiting on drs and fall to 10k if you have to hide.
Team mates dont cc even GlaDs in these lobbies and classes who have spammable cc.
Shadowstrike was dumb then too and further shows the good idea fairy comes around a lot making silly things instead of focusing on core abilities doing jack.
Current design : kill in a short window with gimmicks
Current tuning : kill in a shorter gimmick window with reduced damage
Any rational person understands it’s not cool, a middle ground needs to be met with choice nodes or new talents. Pseudo sustain needs to go away, just make backstab do proper damage, ambush needs to slam instead of being charged up in dance, eviscerate needs FW to be stronger to be decent and the amps like DS and DM just need to go as that is where FW went clearly.
i think the idea is that out of all the specs in the game, SOME could use this playstyle, perhaps SOME people like it
there was always a gimmicky spec, ever since vanilla. perhaps it wasn’t always sub, but here we are.
and about 2 dances…at this point it is a requirement. a few years ago, when there wasn’t so much CC in the game, 1 dance was enough. Now, even with reduced CC durations, it is exceptionally easy to be shut down for 10 seconds, even by a single player, nevermind a team. so with that in mind, 1 dance or 0 dances, it’s the same thing.
you could make it 1 dance, no CDR, and more impactful, but what would happen then? IF the enemy does not have a way to shut you down or a strong defensive, he dead. and we’re back to the gimmicky playstyle, aren’t we?
I mean what’s different between being deleted in a kindney=>dance combo vs a kidney>duel>SecTec combo?
not much of a difference if you ask me…
but indeed i am sad to see shadowstrike from stealth doing such poor damage. Man ambush used to slap. You get ambushed it hurts, that’s how it’s supposed to be.
Combat should never depend on Shadow Dance, or stealth overall in combat. Really defeats the purpose of a toe-to-toe duelist when your class abilities made pointless, and you have to spam Ambush and rely on out-of-class procs for a quarter of your damage.
Why they got rid of Bandit’s Guile, Weapon Specializations, and Expose Armor in exchange for Roll Your Buffs, Shadow Dance, and something boring as Pistol Shot I will never know.
The first patch of Legion was hilarious. Not only did Shadowstrike teleport you even during Shadow Dance, Shadow Dance had 100% uptime and Soothing Darkness healed you for 5% or something a second because it was bugged. So, you were unkillable and unkiteable. But, our damage was bad. So, it was just this silly thing of a Rogue sticking to you like glue until you just eventually died after several minutes.
I whole heartedly believe you’re right about 2 dances but how long until they nerf cheap shot w a cd to make the masses happy? How ling till the next gimmick?
A lot of us are exhausted on this nonsense.
Every dang expansion we are tuned on this, all of df so far nerf buff buff nerf berf nerf buff buff riding a wave. Its not dang fun.
If people want silly crap only to abandon our class and go goof off on other stuff that’s on them but we have to stop paying for the sins of stuff.
More talents to even things out and choice nodes is the only way. I really really hate what we have turned to as a life long subtlety rogue. So many people do not care about our way of life but love doing dumb gimmicks till we are fixed.
This nonsense has to end and the heart and soul of subtlety needs to come back instead of gimmicks from
legion
bfa
-Sl
-df
4 expansions in a row we are filled with gimmicks as the path to “succeess”
No way to make / focus on
-good backstabs
ambushes that matter
eviscerate constantly doing good stuff
Everything is pretty much
“During dance / after dance x happens “
No consistency, all related to dance. Im cool with outlaw and assassination getting dance but subtlety gained nothing at all.
but really, it was a interesting playstyle, not so much the unkillable but the unkitable part.
with so much mobility in the game nowadays, there is a place for a spec or two that can’t be kited, and that can have a different counter than running away
Please stop talking. Your input is bad on so many lvls its insane. I don’t want people who dont know any better to think you know what you are talking about when you don’t.
Change the channel if you don’t like what’s on tv slick.
Many people have input, all voices are heard regardless of differences of thought.
Dance donkey aint healthy, we get continuously slapped for that and gimmicks. Don’t need an oPinIon for that bubs.
Historically tuned around all this mess. Anyone with 2 eyes sees it.
Wod dfa was the start of it.
Legion ds took over, rest of the kit fell apart
Bfa - shuriken azerite + corruptions + blood of the enemy etc. (no core kit emphasis)
Sl ( conduits+ flag/rep carnival rng tier set)
Df (tech reliance) with a motive of moving back to talent trees (only good thing)
At least wod had sv by hemo and all rogue tools which is better demonstrating not everything needs to revolve around dance.
Ambush did full damage
Backstab and hemo existed
Eviscerate did full damage
Find weakness was 50% in pvp and was effective and 100% in pve
You literally post the same things on every thread and drown out other voices with a constant stream of multi paragraph nonsense. The worst part is, what youre advocating for would not work.
I’d probably take that over the absolute barrage of threads from whiny S tier classes whining that they’re somehow not S tier enough over on the PTR forums though…
You see this with SPriests especially, for some reason. If they’re not absolute gods, they’re whinging about how they can’t do anything. If they are god-tier, then they proceed to gaslight everyone else into thinking they’re completely fine.
Paladins and Hunters do it too I’ve noticed. Lots of MM Hunters clinging to those damage buffs like their own weddings rings, even though their damage is fine and more damage doesn’t solve their problems.
