War crimes. Christie Golden. Its cannon. Sylvanas believes Baine is one of the finest warriors in the Horde
So the mishandling of Baine continues, I see.
I really wish they had done more with Baine in general to help establish him as a character instead of just being Cairneâs replacement. He should have played a key role in reaching out to the Taunka in Northrend and should have participated alongside Garrosh in leading the Horde offensive.
By the time Cata rolls by, the schism Metzen wanted to force on the Horde would have made more sense with the honor/pacifist guys rallying around Baine (whoâd have become a war hero in Northrend) while the conquest-focused guys would rally around Garrosh (whoâd also become a war hero in Northrend). Two younger characters that, as put by someone in the discussion this idea was born from, âare set to be the Hordeâs futureâ.
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Oh boy⌠Tauren and Centaur storyâŚ
OP isnât aware of the backstory of Tauren, and is playing an IP based around conflict wondering why PTSD might apply here.
Heâs not being mishandled. Some of the dialogue could be changed to be more realistic, but thatâs whatâs to be expected when your people went through a genocide.
If anything, Baineâs back to being more in character⌠if he had much character to begin with.
Anyways, thread just proves people donât know what they want. They finally have Baine not acting like a cuddly huggable cow and theyâre still mad.
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Iâm aware of the history of the tauren and I still think the scenario is poorly-conceived. For one because Baine going it alone makes zero sense between his being leader of the tauren, a member of the Horde council and setting foot in a place he has no knowledge of. Second, it doesnât account for the amount of time passed; by the time 10.07 takes place the bulk of the problems in the plains have been dealt with. By this time, someone would have sent reports back to Orgrimmar to let them know of the situation on the Dragon Isles. In this case, either the Reliquiary or someone closer to the Horde Council should have sent some word of what has been going on, the whoâs who and the whatâs what. The centaur civil war should already be known, at the least, by the Horde Council and whoever gathered the intelligence for them.
In terms of character stuff, Baine as the leader of the tauren canât afford to have outbursts because heâs the representative of his people (this is why heads of state acting like idiots is heavily frowned upon in real life). Showing needless aggression to a party that heâs never met is not only idiotic but smears his station as a leader representing the tauren and the Horde. Lastly, given his history and his general demeanor, he would do his absolute best to look at this in a level-headed way instead of doing the equivalent of typing in caps, even moreso because the hero of the Horde (AKA the player character) has experience with the non-Nokhud centaur. Overall, it makes him and the Windtotems appear small-minded.
Can the scenario be salvaged? Yes, it can. Keep the Windtotems making the trip because of a vision. Have Baine start the questline telling the player character that because of the reports of the war that happened on the plains, caution has been has been advised (maybe even throw in that he or someone close to him tried to dissuade the Windtotems from making this journey, but failed). Have him also mention that heâs personally getting involved because of who heâs read inhabits the plains and his peopleâs skittishness with the centaur. Have him show some reservations or doubts when dealing with Tomul but remain diplomatic to show heâs head and shoulders above the average tauren. Keep the other tauren being distrustful of the centaur. Rewrite some of the dialogue to sound more natural. The stuff when they start working together is generally fine. Itâs just the start that is in need of rewriting.
I canât speak for others, but my criticism of Baine is that heâs always been treated as a prop instead of as a character. This has been an issue with him since the days of Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne. This scenario may use him, but it also makes him look really bad.
I think this is more accurate. The Sylvanas we see in game treats Baine like a steer that keeps getting out of his pen.
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to be fair, they wrote that Sylvanas treats everyone that way.
You guys remember that one time when Medivh kept appearing to leaders of the Orc clans over on Draenor and convinced them to build some sort of portal thingie? Whatever happened with that?
The same thing as why the Orcs corrupted themselves drinking demon blood because their affected leaders told them to, demonic influence:
The quests in SL to help heal Lordaeron, Calia states that the forsaken troops were going to be withdrawn from Gilneas.
Alliance players receive the quest âReport to Greymaneâ, in which you return to Greymane in Oribos with a Letter to Greymane, in which Calia hints at a withdrawal of Forsaken troops from Gilneas.
King Greymane,
The ally you sent to aid us was most effective, and in return for your patience, I offer welcome news.
With the formation of the new Desolate Council, one of the first topics I propose is the withdrawal of Forsaken troops from the kingdom of Gilneas. In time I hope that we may come closer to agreement, and see both lands into a brighter future.
Warm Regards,
Calia Menethil
Greymane is surprisingly happy about this outcome:
Greymane: Well⌠this is welcome news. I find myself surprised in a pleasant way, for the first time in a long while.
Greymane: Let us all hope that the future is indeed brighter.
But who knows.
Wasnât that KilâJaeden?
Bah. I suppose thatâs the problem there. I didnât play a whole lot through Shadowlands and frankly hate to have to especially with canon events in it. Eventually Iâll get to it 
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No it was Medivh under the influence of Sargeras as I posted a couple posts above.
To simplify/summarize, Medivhâs mother fought an avatar of Sargeras when she was with Medivh, she beat it but she got âinfectedâ, and that passed to Medivh, as he grew older the influence of Sargeras continued to grow, to the point where he contacted the orcs on Draenor and helped them connect the worlds via the Dark Portal, and eventually his corruption by Sargeras was found out and he was stopped by Lothar, Khadgar, and Garona.
Ah so that doesnât make him Alliance anymore? 
Thereâs a major difference between the Avatar of Sargeras imbuing itself with Aegwynns unborn child and Orcs willingly drinking fel blood to make them stronger to kill the Draenei and assault Azeroth.
Which was the point I was making in my reply to Vincent, the Alliance is not at fault for the actions of Medivh under the influence of Sargeras, same as the Orcs cannot be fully blamed for their actions post blood because their actions were under demonic influence during WC1 & 2, and while lessened by the beginning of WC3, was not gone yet (Hellscream and Co falling back under it until Manneroth was finally killed)
Willingly is debateable, is it âwillinglyâ if someone whoâs leaders they have known for their entire lives as honorable, tell them to drink something that will make them stronger without telling them what it is? Alchemy is a thing in Warcraft, they were given a concoction they saw one who drank it grew stronger
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I think thereâs plenty of credit where its due by respective Horde and Alliance champions. Camp Taurajo was led by a squad who didnât care about the innocent there. That much is true.
But if I had to tally âhorrid atrocitiesâ, Horde takes the cake on that one. The South Shore one at the hands of the Forsaken is by far one of the worst they conveyed in the game.
Garrosh also ordered genocide including various war crimes that cannot be mentioned on the forum or in game.
Alliance isnât perfect, but man, they are not the Horde.
Camp Taurajo really is easily reasoned, if one plays the Alliance side and not just the Horde side of the Barrens.
Baine admitted when asked that it was a valid military target, and the commander of the attack deliberately ordered an opening in the lines so that civilians could get out safely, example:
Throughout questing there you see he wants peace with the Horde, sends you on quests to punish the rogue soldiers you mentioned who went to steal and plunder the ruins, etc⌠up until he asks you to meet him somewhere and you find out he was killed.
Which consequently, on the Horde side of the Barrens, all you hear about is how he is the âbutcher of Taurajoâ and the Horde player is literally the one that kills him.
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Iâd forgotten that it was as the Horde PC that did the deed. For a while I was under the impression that his more aggressive subordinate had arranged an unfortunate accident for him.
I suppose it is also another example of how the war isnât as likely to end. For example, the Alliance has the belief Sylvanas had a hand in Varians death during the battle against the Legion.
How many Alliance champions would rationally believe she didnât have a hand in it? Especially after BfA and SL.
At the time, I thought they didnât have much choice but to withdraw. It was that or get rolled up. If I were the Horde commander on the scene, knowing only what I knew then, Iâd have probably done the same thing.
I think itâs been retconned since then as part of Sylvanasâ master plan.
That said â Iâm glad the war storylines are dead. And I hope they donât come back. Iâm OK with a renewed Cold War, but I never want to see another war storyline written by this crew of clowns ever again.
Iâm just glad to see Baine finally getting some action after making him sit in the corner for two years. Now if they can go ahead and have Magatha show up in some later patch with the Doomstone as a raid boss, maybe even let Baine lay the finishing blow like they did with Hellscream to Soulrender Dormazain, that would be nice. Also please give Tauren Grimtotem warpaint please.
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