Ok, I’m not even going to engage with your level of stupidity good day sir.
Ps you didn’t even read the quote either. Learn some reading comprehension
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I don’t think they’d ever allow it to move with the paladin(not again at least). It would cause certain issues with things like Hallowed Ground. That being it would make the paladin and any allies following in it basically near permanently immunity to snares. Then there’s Consecrated Ground, which would then give the paladin a nearly 100% snare up time once the opponent is caught in the Consecration(provide the paladin continues to stay on them). It would also give continuous healing via Golden Path(but I don’t know how significant that would even be)
Though much of this could be fixed by increasing it Cooldown(and that probably would have to be significant) compared to its duration(the BFA version for instance). That would then effect Prot though, but I’ve always hated the idea of Prot having to stay in Consecration anyway(makes them too immobile, its annoying). So frankly that could be changed. If they want to keep the thematics of being more defensive standing your ground in Consecration as Prot. They could add a defensive element to it when it is up. They’d also have make it hit a lot harder(and heal a lot more) to make up for the increased Cooldown and short duration.
Or though a much simpler fix would simply be removing those talents(I don’t think anyone takes Consecrated Ground or Hallowed Ground anyway) and then have it follow the paladin.
Or may take it off the GCD, as it doesn’t do anything that significant. Would that help much?, well at least wouldn’t clog up the rotation then.
Frankly I don’t care about Consecration, other than it popping out the occasional nub Rogue.
Yeah cause it’s my reading and not your post that is wrong, but enjoy the report and hopefully vacation.
I don’t enjoy how Holy Power works. They need to change it to 6 (Or higher) or revamp the system altogether. Why limit us to 5 and then have everything cost 3 power? What kind of basic linear system is that?
Typically something with a small cap like 5 has varying consumptions. If you’re going to cap us at 5, at least give us 2/3 consumers instead of all 3. It’s annoying as heck.
I can also see why Ret needs to be changed. So much of our damage is loaded into cooldowns/random proc bursts. It’s a rather unsatisfying playstyle.
Also I strongly believe Holy needs to be reviewed as well. Playstyle wise at least. It suffers from Holy Power limitations more than the other two specs. And more on the “gaining” side than the “spending” side.
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yall need to stop wanting conc and exo to be good. if they are removed or just filler then its a win. also
cringe post, L in page format. dont fix what isnt broken.
Very constructive feedback sir. Highly appreciated.
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The context is the original quote was some buffoon responding to me saying “everyone loves Consecration and none cares about your garabage opinion that it needs changes”
You can somewhat see the irony with the responses like yours automatically assuming that the minority would be in support of Consecration being fine, and the majority believing it is outdated and needs changes.
When in fact the original post Mord was replying to was claiming the opposite and that most people think Consecration is fine (lol) and it’s only the vocal minority that think it needs changes.
Honestly though there was nothing Mord could really do to provide better context through quoting, if you do care to look at the original post it was an incoherent wall of text.
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theres not really much to say about it. cringe post. the minority that want to change holy power from a system that works to a overcomplicated worse mess is just astoundingly dumb. 2hopo costing things wont change things, if anything if they add 1/2/3 hopo costs, they will make it scale based on hopo spent like in cata or mop. you will still cast at 3 because casting bellow 3 will be a dps loss. theyre probably gonna nerf the2hopo cost jv as well or make it have a cd.
changing hopo to cap at 6 wouldnt change much either, just the order on how you spend your spenders. instead of generating to 5 then spender generator spender. it’ll be generate to 6 using one more generator and then spender, spender. thats not accounting for judgement and DR judgements after you dt, which you have to utlize with each spender
there is that enough feedback?
Because the initial limit was 3 HP.
It was added up to 5 to give leeway in the playstyle (and ironically that leeway was removed with Dusk and Dawn).
Giving 6 would reintroduce the issues of the 3 HP system, so then what? Add an extra 2HP to 8?
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That is better but calling a post cringe isn’t exactly productive. You can hate my post all you want. At least be tactile about it.
Bad balancing on another system doesn’t necessarily make it bad. It makes the balancing they attempted bad. 3 costs with a 5 cap makes for a strange playstyle. That’s all I’m saying. I don’t play Pally enough to ask for changes. I’m just not sure I’ll continue playing one (Unless it’s FOTM, screw this balancing).
Leeway in the sense you GCD-spend, then GCD-build? That GCD could be the difference between life and death for a Word of Glory or whatever.
And then consecration randomly giving you another point (It’s a talent but eh), thus nullifying your zero dump. It’s like one annoying facet after another. I dunno how you all like this playstyle.
No, leeway in the case of since your cap isn’t the same as your expenditure you are able to “overcap” your HP.
It’s easier to think of in the case of Rogue, because they also received an inflated combo point store in the past.
Typically prior to having additional “resource storage” a Rogue would spend at 4 or 5 CP.
Ideally you would want 5 CP, however due to external sources of CP or abilities generating multiple combo points generating combo points at 4 CP was risky as often you would “waste” CP generation by generating more than you could store.
So this would encourage them to spend at 4 CP as the loss of optimisation was less detrimental than the wasting excess CP generation. (As resource generation is the most important part of a builder/spender rotation)
Eventually they increased the cap (which I believe they since removed for alternate reasons) which allowed for better optimisation, you could now always build to 5 CP as any additional would still be banked to contribute towards your next spender, ie it wouldn’t be lost.
Ret is exactly the same. 3 HP total, 3 HP spenders (outside of Inquisition). So we didn’t even have the luxury of deliberately using a slightly less optimal version to preserve HP generation.
This wasn’t an issue in Cata as our HP generation was fairly static, we cast 3 builders then spent, cast 3 builders then spent.
However in MoP they introduced a larger pool of abilities that generated HP and increased our cap to increase flexibility and prevent abilities sitting off cd for extended periods whilst we were forced to spend.
Now you can easily see an issue where with only 3 HP you would only ever be able to use BoJ with 0 or 1 HP otherwise you would waste HP generation.
That becomes highly restrictive, especially when unlike Rogues your generator abilities are also gated by cds. Have 2 HP with BoJ off cd but Judgement/CS are still on CD? You have to wait for them to come off cd then use a GCD to build that HP and then another to spend those HP before you can finally use BoJ to generate the 2 HP.
Obviously that is highly ridiculous and not good design, so instead with the release of Legion they increased the cap to 5. Now you can use BoJ at 0, 1, 2, or 3 HP doubling your opportunities to use and not waste it, and adding a large degree of flexibility into the rotation and how it is played.
TL:DR - Being able to store resources above your spending value reduces the potential of accidental waste of resource generation through abilities that generate multiple resources, or external generation like procs.
Which is why I dislike Dusk and Dawn, and that interaction contradicts and inhibits that freedom of rotation and ability for optimisation.
Edit - Slight clarification after being corrected on something I had thought was true but struggled to fact check when originally writing.
Thanks Covahredro for the heads up and encouraging me to double check. It was exactly what I couldn’t find earlier lol.
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was just in a raid with a ret who was decked out in 400+ gear… guessing they were being lazy because my 380 ilvl ret does WAY more dps than they were doing…does current Ret get worse numbers as ilvl goes up or something?
As a side reverie to the general theme of the forum, I was reflecting on the nature of combo point design in general and it seems to me that there are a few philosophies that appear to work best in practice.
Namely few generators with diverse spenders (typically Rogues historical design), diverse generators with few spenders (the state of some historical Ret builds), or the balanced approach with some diversity in both generators and spenders ~3-4 of each max (MoP/WoD design and to a degree Legion rotation design).
Outside of these depth is lost to arbitrary superficial complexity, or basically the addition of additional buttons that are functionally shallow and serve no deliberate purpose but to increase the number of buttons pressed.
I feel modern Ret has been shifting towards that later design over time with various builds and is typified in DF.
Overly diverse numbers of generators and to a similar degree spenders that increase spec bloat whilst lacking in providing any substantial depth.
This of course being topped off by a multitude of abilities that provide no interaction with the core resource cycle but are significant enough to warrant their inclusion.
I hope that with their current reworking process that they are taking into account some of these design principles and have a clear plan on which style they want to emphasise.
Something that can prevent the kind of scope creep that has occurred with the current design from occurring throughout the rework design process.
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This should never happen.
Possibly just lazy, possibly carried, possibly just poorly optimised, possibly had really poor luck with mechanics targetting, possibly wasn’t very familiar with the encounter and poorly timed their cd use, possibly just a bad player that has hard-wired poor habits into their playstyle.
Ilvl these days doesn’t provide a very good idea of what a player is capable as gear has become overall a lot more accessible.
Either way the long and short is you just out performed the player, either you were significantly more prepared and thus were getting more out of your available gear and/or you just performed significantly better mechanically than they did, be that uptime/use of cds/rotationally etc.
i shouldnt have to explain why a bad change is bad, when tis obvious due to our rotation. people want back to back spenders i get it, your not the first to suggest that change. but you’d still try to fit a judgement before each spender anyways. that pipeline usually leads to “take hopo out of judgement then”
yes people boosting 400 gear is common, they usually suck. this is why people check logs and parses
The cap has been 5 holy power since MoP. But I think it was introduced in game at some point during Cata. I just remember a player back then doing a post how it being a 3 pushed the Cooldowns back of generators too much. As some generators were coming off Cooldown at around the same time you had 3 holy power to spend. Which meant the loss of potential holy power. As you always wanted to use holy power generator has soon as they come off Cooldown and keep them on Cooldown. In order to maximize holy power generation and thus in turn holy power spending. Blizzard listened and add the passive Boundless Conviction, which increased the cap to 5 holy power.
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It definitely wasn’t in Cata if I recall correctly.
I honestly also thought it was back in MoP/WoD however when doing the fact checking I couldn’t find any reference to it.
The earliest I could find was the Legion patch notes that specifically referred to HP being increased to 5 and also becoming Ret only, so I just figured I was misremembering it.
Although it was possibly a specific passive that added two that I simply couldn’t find reference to.
Nvm, found it.
https://www.wowdb.com/spells/115675-boundless-conviction
Turns out I wasn’t crazy.
Thanks for correcting me 
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- This is unnacceptable.
- Players had been asking for paladins not to feel like rogues since cata, and a rework on our resources does not have to be complicated to do so. We are holy warriors, we should feel like we fight like them, not feel like we are rogues in plate who fights dishonorably.
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We drive around in a wheelchair and have paper defensives…that is the exact opposite of fighting dishonorably.
Our defenses and horse don’t use our Holy power (cough combo points) system. So what does that has to do with the arguement? Also horse is a weaker sprint (rogues) btw.