Already see a few problems developing, really should address them before they go any further.
Execution Sentence: The current version of this ability is bad and unfun, having to cram all the damage you can into an 8s window is just poor design. Punished heavily for mistakes and even if you don’t make a mistake, you get a mechanic and have to move away from the target, punished, it’s bad gameplay. This talent needs to be REINVENTED.
Justicar’s Vengeance: Damage values have to change, if this remains the same AP ratio as TV and FV, there is no way they will be able to compete, 2 HP cost? Honestly we don’t need another spender, delete this ability and just merge the healing and extra damage into our the abilities we already have.
Divine Protection: 20%? That is almost nothing, please 30% or more.
10 Likes
I wish execution sentence would just be scraped completely. Such an unfun talent
41 Likes
90% of that list is a problem outside of DP baseline, and AoW buff.
If DP is 1m cd I’m ok with 20%, if it’s 2mins again…well it needs addressing.
No news on Final Reckoning or Seraphim, Vanguard’s Momentum being the only (and minimal) change to stacking damage modifiers is concerning.
Nothing on Consecration…
The JV stuff…
5s AoE stun on demons and undead on a resetting 12s cd…
It’s all very much alarming news.
Divine Protection baseline and on a 1 min cd.
Buffed AoW proc chance.
Looks like some sort of AoE component or modifier to Blade of Justice.
20 yd range on Final Verdict.
Reduced cd on Judgment and CS.
More Hammer of Wrath charges and more HP generation during execute phase.
Increased range and reduced cd of WoA.
Why is everyone unhappy? And this is just the first round of notes. Did I misunderstand Wowhead?
12 Likes
Because ES and JV are still talents? They can’t just get rid of JV even though it’s been dead choice for 3 ENTIRE EXPANSIONS!?!?!!?
There are good changes, never said there weren’t, but the things I listed specifically show THE SAME OLD PROBLEMS!
13 Likes
If they’re hell bent on keeping JV, it needs to do significantly less damage to not confuse ret players to use it as their main single target dump.
Then make it heal us by a % amount instead of a pseudo leech.
I gueds we should wait they said some things may not have enough “context”. But agree.
If you keep one of the amplifiers and toxic gameplay Id rather have final reckoning over es dt seraphin. Fr has uses for both st and aoe, you could increase the duration and decrease damage amp, maybe comoletely change it so fr makes your attacks apply a heavy stacking holy damage dot acording to the spenders you use.
And yes jv has to go dont reduce the hp, straight up delete it or make it a passive. We dont need more spenders keep tv ds and wog as such. Please…
1 Like
The changes are concerning…the abilities seem especially overtuned and the 1hp loss on BoJ will most likely have ripple effects on our spencers.
Until we get our hands on the full kit, things are very, very hard to read.
3 Likes
They literally just haven’t done anything they announced they were supposed to be looking at.
Some of the changes are nice, but many just miss the mark by a mile.
These are both good.
These are both…eh.
Why did Final Verdict need more range? It was never an issue and was already out of our engagement range anyway. Is this our “mobility” being addressed?
Reduced cd on Judgement and CS is just mostly inconsequential. It’s only 1s for Judgement over what it used to be, and CS is negligible.
If anything it conflicts with no Consecration changes as our already low priority spell is just available more often leading to inevitably zero free GCDs.
So either we drop using something, or they are just going to be sitting on cd anyway regardless of 2s reduced cd or not. It’s most likely redundant.
This is one of the few interesting changes and is nice for execution. 4 HP gen is too much though in my opinion, it will be extremely poor to optimise.
This especially with the stun just feels meh. It’s not the ability, but the fact that it is literally just a baby WoA now.
The potential removal of HP generation on BoJ is also unusual if true.
Either way I question why we need two of the exact same ability, from a design perspective it just seems superfluous.
As mentioned earlier if it truly stuns for 5s in AoE as well…on a 12s cd.
That’s just going to be busted for any undead/demon PvE content.
2 Likes
alot of people are happy, these are good changes with more changes coming sono. people are just being really technical and focused on semantics that shouldnt matter. (jv) legit the only issue i can see is the stun dr in undead packs from doing our normal rotation
keep in mind these are datamines and they dont reflect the full talent tree, yo uare over reacting with doom saying like “fv range is our mobility!!! OMFGFEADW” this doesnt help anything. also weve been asking for a aoe generator since the removal of lights hammer. a aoe blade of justice is just what the doctor ordered
3 Likes
They stated, in the Ret changes heads up thingy, that these changes wouldn’t make sense at this stage and the talent tree wouldn’t be on the ptr build.
I have no real comments until I see the first iteration of the talent tree
13 Likes
I still feel that Justicar’s Vengeance should just buff/modify the existing Templar’s Verdict/Final Verdict.
15 Likes
True, but it does indicate a direction and what they have been looking at.
No, I said is it supposed to address our mobility.
It’s a question, not a statement.
10yrd range was never an issue of FV, and 20 yrd range is has never been an issue.
The only place this really has value is in PvP, so why would range be an issue? Because they don’t expect us to be able to stick on a target, otherwise it would be inconsequential.
So either we have the mobility and it’s just irrelevant, so why bother changing it? Or we don’t have mobility so the range is to compensate at which point our issues haven’t been addressed.
Pick one, irrelevant or issues not addressed this change can only ever be one of them. Much like Seal of the Templar the devs seem to forget we function in melee range.
Personally I don’t see the difference, and the current iteration is as I said earlier just baby WoA.
AoE? Check
Burn damage? Check
Stuns undead/demons for 5s? Check
Generates HP? Check
Ontop of that it’s not “an AoE generator” it’s just BoJ with an AoE component.
It functions exactly the same way as it is used to, now it simply also does damage in AoE. There is no difference in interaction at all so it’s hardly the same as having a true AoE generator.
Once again our rotation is the exact same regardless of target number with us just pressing TV or DS depending on the enemies.
The removal of HP baseline for BoJ is also concerning. Does this mean it doesn’t generate HP without the Holy Blade talent?
Or is it just a datamining error?
We honestly don’t need more spenders in the game, we need less.
TV/JV
DS
WOG
Should 100% be it.
Remove Seraphim, Radiant, JV, Executioner and give us real abilities
14 Likes
That’s better than the current iteration, but I personally dislike addling passive healing to basic damage rotation.
Its completely mindless and skill less. I mean remember DH leech in bfa just because they pop they’re main cd.
i mean keep in mind that the FV range increase is most likely a qol function for pvpers, keep in mind that the datamining also shows us steed is being worked on. its very unlikely that “range fv” is the check for our mobility.
…what? did you want something like hammer of righteous as a aoe spender or something? you do know this is like a reflect of hammer of light right? which was a very liked aoe generator. plus with aow buff and the potential axing of woa resets. it means we will have this “mini woa” more often to fit our aoe generator niche. not to mention if each aoe blade triggering expurgation will be a extreme boon to eranog ring.
you are also fogetting the fact that wake of ashes is our strongest ability infact its probably the strongest pure damage ability in the game for a gcd. now its ona 30 second cd. there is no issues on having boj turn into a baby woa in aoe, this is nothing but a net buff
also yes it is a datamining error, boj will still generate hopo
its clear that they also intend to do more rotational changes, the aoe boj as you stated, replaces exo. exo did nothing for our rotation, it only did damage and take up a gcd in your peak wings. ES is also a 45second cd which also implies they are working on other things. further more with the removal of exo, it lowkey hints that consecreation might be chugged out or atleast its multiple damage modifiers on the ret tree.
the spec doesnt need an entire rotational overhaul. us getting more survability, more mobility and less button bloat is more than enough for ret in DF. if the rotation remains the same with less buttons then thats 100% a complete win.
2 Likes
evoker is legit right around the corner bud, seraphim and radiant is huge for our aoe
theres no need for radiant to exist when we have DS
1 Like
you are underestimating the power of a 5 capped spender version of wake of ashes, when suped up by judgement and fr and seraphim. its legit the reason why ret is huge on aoe
There is no way they’ll give us that on a 37 second CD and have it be baseline. And if its still a choice node, it prob won’t be taken still yeah?