100% Up-Time FtD Build in SL (For Vengeance Spec)

Classes Demon Hunter
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Bored. Just wanna talk about the spec. and builds you guys plan on running.

So in Higher Keys, I know that tanks should be optimizing for survivability over damage so that you can do those bigger/needed pulls to maximize your DPS’s DPS. Right now, we are able to keep 100% uptime on a Defensive Spell with Infernal Armor, Feed the Demon, and the Versa/Haste Build. Demon Spike for 6 seconds, Immo. Aura for 6 seconds, Demon Spikes for 6 seconds, and you repeat this. It can go the other way as well like: Immo. Aura, Demon Spike, Immo Aura, repeat.

Ok, so how do you get 100% uptime? Well, kind of. Not 100% uptime on Demon Spikes. That’s impossible. But with the Infernal Armor and FtD Talents, you can keep 100% uptime. Infernal Armor only increases your Armor by 20% though. It’s not a lot, but it’s better than getting a debuff that reduces your Armor by 20%. This build automatically increases your Armor by 20% or more, all the time. With the Versa/Haste build, or you can change out Versa for something else, but stacking Haste reduces your Immo. Aura and Demon Spike Cooldown. Not enough to have 100% uptime, but with the right Talents, you can. You are collecting a lot of Souls. You don’t have to worry about only collecting Souls at a certain time or anything like that. You collect Souls so often that passively, you WILL have another charge of Demon Spikes ready to continue the cycle and keep 100% uptime.

Now, the… the word… “Aggro”. The build does have aggro issues. Since you can’t spam Soul Cleave right away and get that initial AoE damage in. So you have to rely on your Infernal Stike, Sigil of Flame, and Immo Aura. Which, if you’ve been in a group that can do a lot of damage with no Rogues or Hunters… even with Soul Cleave spams, you may need to Taunt/Throw Glaive here and there. But hey, there’s a reason why they’re there. But if you have a Rogue and or a Hunter, you’ll be fine.

The damage output of this build is like… around 200-300 dps less than the Fracture build. That was what I got from 3 Target Dummies anyways. I was like 2.2k with Fracture, and 1.9k with FtD. This can vary of course. Your Trinkets, Stats, Gear, etc. (This info was gather at 125 ilvl)

Anyways. What are you guys planning to run on your VDHs in SL? Thoughts on this 100% uptime build? Useful? Over the top useless? I’m curious. Thanks for your time. Take care.

----- EDIT (In Response to @Brujanna) -----

Hm. There appears to be a bug. I can’t post or make replies. Anyways, this is in reply to @Brujanna :

Spirit Bomb and Fracture are for sure the gotos when it comes to Mythic+. Without a doubt. I’m mainly thinking and talking about the “World First”, or the “High Keys” atmosphere. Where “one-shots” happen outside of our defensives. I had a few thoughts on this. Ok so, I have not played or watched much of the Shadowlands dungeons, but I can tell via of the AoE caps, that the dungeons and the Mythic+ runs are going to be a slower pace, with fewer mobs per pull. So that has me thinking. Is 100% uptime not needed, and or is it overkill? In BfA, the pulls were big. You needed that 100% uptime because you had like 10+ dudes hitting you hard. But now with the AoE cap, and fewer mobs per pull, is the 100% uptime overkill? You have a lot less damage intake per second. Meaning it’s safer to talent into doing more damage, making the key go faster. However, keys scale infinitely. That means that you will reach a point where the one-shots happen. Even if it’s just 2 guys. Those 2 guys scale infinitely in Mythic+. So in those “World First”/“High Key” runs. Will that 20% Armor increase/100% uptime be the viable option? 20% is small, but it’ll be about… well right now it’s 10% damage reduction for me, with the Infernal Armor Azerite Traits, but once those go away it’ll go down, but it’ll go back up when our Armor increases with the item level increase. Anyways, just thinking.

And yeah, threat is going to be a problem. But having a Hunter/Rogue in the group will help. But more importantly, learning and practicing to use our abilities to keep threat on multiple targets. Throw Glaive is our best friend when it comes to that. Smaller pulls in Shadowlands, fewer targets, perfect for Throw Glaive to shine. I’ve ran a few keys with the 100% uptime build. I will not lie… it does not feel good. I mean, of course, it feels good to spam AoE abilities. So not being able to anymore is going to suck. And it is difficult to keep threat. But this AoE cap isn’t built for BfA dungeons, so I’m taking it with a grain of salt. In smaller pulls, I can keep threat. Around the AoE cap of 5 guys. Using Throw Glaive about 2 times within the first 5 seconds or so of the pull. And if there’s a big pull, plan a route to work around your Fel Dev. to have it for that big pull. Anyways, I’m rambling. With the AoE cap, that initial threat isn’t so bad, so long you use Throw Glaive.

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What a toxic contribution to a great OP.

Sorry, not a VDH. Just wanted to stop by and say thanks for this OP. Really well thought out

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How predictable.

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Yes, I would’ve liked to have given feedback but I don’t play VDH so I simply came here to pay respects. You came here to be toxic and insult demon hunter players. Good use of your time.

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Correction: I came here to point out the lack of feedback and gave my opinion as to why.

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Surely there wasn’t a less toxic way of accomplishing this goal than

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Spirit Bomb and Fracture. 20% increased armor is not a lot, in the scheme of things, and uncapped AoE from Spirit Bomb is really important for threat, at least in dungeons.

It feels like M+ concerns are a distant second to raid tuning. I think purely from a raid perspective, there are a lot of strong options and that the spec is in a good place. Losing threat, especially AoE threat, for marginal survivability gains in M+ though is a bad tradeoff.

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I was thinking the same, while I find fracture more enjoyable, I think I’ll park it while gearing through lower m+

Maybe later on it will make sense.

For snap aggro Im probably going to end up as Kyrian.

I wish necrolord was an option :frowning:

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Worth giving it a go. I started leveling a Horde DH as VDH recently and found without Fracture that I felt pretty Fury-starved, but obviously I didn’t have the whole kit. Being able to top up in two GCDs is a decent QoL improvement. Wish it would be baseline.

I don’t have the math with me, but I think a lot of people miss that one of the big benefits of Fodder is the buff from the real demon soul fragment, too. I think the cooldown is still too long relative to the benefit, but it’s not a trivial amount of additional damage.

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I mained Veng/Havoc in Legion and took a break early on BFA so I don’t have much experience there. But I’m prepping for SL and maining DH again so I’m checking out Vengeance. I also have a BRM.

One thing I’m looking at is Soul Barrier + Fracture. If I use Spirit Bomb defensively, it leaves a lot of frags for Cleave and timing Soul Barrier. I find that I can use Demon Spikes outside of this as well as Fiery Brand and Fel Devestation. There seems to be a lot of short burst damage mitigation for Veng which makes it challenging. I guess adding Soul Barrier in there makes it a little more challenging then passively feeding demon spikes.

Has anyone tried Soul Barrier and used it effectively or is it not worth it?

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How much of your healing does Frailty account for?