10.0 Resto Shaman Talents

I would like to start off by saying overall I am quite happy with the design of the talent trees for restoration shaman. That being said, I do see some areas that could potentially benefit from some minor adjustments. Anything mentioned will be from the view of a restoration shaman in a raid, unless mentioned otherwise, and I will not be focusing much on tuning.

Class Tree
The class tree is designed quite nicely. There are several clear winners in terms of talents and enough leftover points after to select utility talents for a wide variety of situations. There are a few shortcomings of the tree that I’d like to address.

Astral Shift
My first issue with the tree is that Astral Shift had received a nerf, followed by a talent that provides us with the original power of the ability. To the credit of the tree creator, the choice node that enhances Astral Shift is well designed, however I have a suggestion that may be more positively received by the community.
Recommendation:
Astral Shift. 40% DR with a 1.5 min CD
Choice Node:
-20% DR with a 1 min CD
-60% DR with a 2 min CD

Purge
The positioning of Purge feels kind of bad. I could see there being situations where we are forced to take talents that are unwanted, just to reach Purge. Possibly it is set up this way with PVP in mind, but changing the positioning of this talent could be a positive change.

Fire and Ice
Possibly consider changing it to buff fire and nature damage. I feel that frost is too build dependent and also has no effect for resto shaman. I understand though if frost was chosen to keep the talent from being too strong.

Mana Spring Totem
I don’t see this talent ever being taken, unless the mana regen per tick is tuned high. The only solution I see aside from tuning is making it a permanent/long duration totem.

Stoneskin Totem
I don’t see this talent being taken ever in PVE. The power level + the upkeep required just doesn’t seem worth the talent. There is a small chance it gets used in M+, but in raid this totem has little to no value.
Recommendation:
-Give the totem a flat 10% DR and have it affect raid members. The CD would then need to be adjusted to account for the gain in power.

Call of the Elements
This talent is very situational at best, and I foresee this seeing almost no use throughout the expansion. There are a couple of ideas I have for this.
Recommendation:
My first idea would be to replace the talent with something new. One option is a choice node of Vesper Totem and Chain Harvest. The choice node could then be followed by a split of 2 talents, offering the legendary effect of each ability.
The other option would be to allow it to affect totems on the 3 min CD. The downside to this is that it really only benefits resto, leaving the 2 dps specs without anything useful.

Spec Tree
I’m very torn when it comes to the specialization tree. There is some variety provided, but there already appears to be a very clear BiS build for raid. Probably my biggest issue is the fact that we are returning to season 1 necrolord resto shaman and just getting some passive throughput gains to spells. This leaves a lot to be desired as not only are we not really getting anything new to look forward to, but it also seems as if resto shamans are reverting back to a former playstyle. I have some ideas to adjust the tree in an attempt to provide more flexibility in playstyle.

Water Shield
This is a dead talent, and feels even worse that it is required if someone wants to take Lava Surge. The passive mana regen is not enough to justify taking it and we should rarely be procing the effect in PVE.
Recommendation:
-Combine Water Shield with Resurgence. Water Shield needs to be active to proc the mana regen from Resurgence.
-Choice node with Resurgence. Could be done but likely won’t be taken over resurgence in any scenario.

Following this change a replacement would be required. A simple solution would be to move Lava Surge up, and add Igneous Potential below Lava Surge. There is a more complicated solution of rearranging talents that would put dps talents on the left and healing ones down the middle.

Overflowing Shores
I feel that if this talent remains a 2 point node, the 2nd point should provide more of a gain than an extra 1 yard radius. This could either be an increase in healing done or affecting an additional person.

Flow of the Tides
I highly doubt that this talent will be taken unless the consumption of an active riptide is removed.

Primordial Wave
I like that primordial wave is being brought into Dragonflight as it was the most interactive covenant ability. One issue that I have had with the ability however is that it provides nothing for damage as a resto shaman. I would love for the option to be able to Lava Burst cleave with it, in situations where healing is required. If no change is made to Primordial Wave, additional covenant abilities would be welcome.
I also feel that some rearrangement of the talents enhancing Primordial Wave should be done.
Recommendation:
Have Improved Primordial Wave and the choice node branch off separately from Primordial Wave. This would open up more flexibility of points in the tree.

Tumbling Waves
Currently on live this talent has over a 30% chance to not incur a CD. With it being reduced to 15% I feel there will be no competition for it with Continuous Waves, and it will never be taken.

Deeply Rooted Elements
I don’t see this talent ever being taken. It’s a low proc chance low duration talent. Out of curiosity I tried it in a key in early Shadowlands and it was not worth using. It may be okay in PVP, with the talents that it is behind I doubt that it will be taken.
I think it may be best to remove Deeply Rooted Elements and adjust the capstones. My suggestion would be something like this:
-Primordial Wave->Continuous/Tumbling choice->Primal Tide Core
->Improved Primordial Wave<-
-High Tide / Well Spring choice node
-Ascendance
-Vesper Totem / Chain Harvest choice node (with legendary effect)

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Pretty good takes overall.

One thing that might soften the blow a bit is to change the “Free” talent for Resto from Lava Burst to Astral Shift. For people like me who really enjoy Lava Surge as a healer, it wouldn’t change anything. But for people who don’t want to touch any dps talents it would free up a point.

I’m curious how Cleanse Spirit works with being Resto. Is it a different button than the Magic dispel? But either way, i agree the Spirit Wolf, Decurse, purge, cap totem area is a little bit wonky for PVE and especially Raid.

I think Fire/Ice being Fire/Nature would just be too good for a 1-pointer. But I certainly wouldn’t complain.

Mana Spring and Stoneskin - I doubt these will ever be taken outside of raid. And I can’t imagine a scenario where you would take both. Mana Spring is sorta “whatever” amounts of mana, but over a long progression fight it might make the difference. Stoneskin I think is a big player for your tanks. Just 10% DR just on melee attacks with 50% uptime is a pretty massive buff. It’s 3 times stronger than devotion aura. Sure you’re not auto-picking it on every shaman, but It’s nice to see a party-buff that Ele and Resto that is comparable in power to Windfury Totem (if you’re placed in the tank group).

100% Agree on Watershield. It feels super-bad to have to buy this ability with a talent considering how low impact it is. Watershield should just be baseline and this talent should just be removed. On that note, having to buy Healing Wave also feels like madness - especially considering that if you didn’t want Lava Surge, you could actually bypass it and totally f-over a huge part of your kit.
So yeah my take would be baseline Healing Wave + Water Shield and then have Lava Surge be the only talent along that line.

(I wrote the following BEFORE I read the section you wrote about Igneous Potential , but I’m going to leave it unedited - “great minds think alike” I guess :slight_smile:)
Heck even make Lava Surge a 2-pointer. There was an Azerite Trait called Igneous Potentia which increased the damage of Lava Burst cast off Lava Surge by a flat amount and increased the proc to 25%. So down the middle: Lava Surge → Igneous Potential → Spirit Link. Where are my BFA battle-restos at?

I assumed that Overflowing Shores was a tooltip error, because as it stands 2/2 shores would be terrible.

Flow of the Tides - 1000% agree. Flow is almost certainly a healing throughput down-grade with how important rip tide is to the rest of your abilities. It feels like bait, especially considering that Ancestral Reach is already ~24% increased healing by getting the extra person + the 8% on all 5 targets AND doesn’t bork your riptides. Might I suggest joining my (so far 1 person) “Justice for Chains of Devastation” cause? I think the existing Lego for Chains of Devastation would be a perfect replacement for Flow of the Tides. Please see my thread a few posts down in this channel and give a comment or <3 if you agree.

Deeply Rooted ~might~ find it’s way into an M+ Build. But that would be dependant on the flower talents being worth the investment (Earthliving Weapons + its improvement). Which, tuning wise, seem kinda “meh” right now.

I couldn’t disagree more with your takes. At one point you state that a talent looks good for PvP but you want it removed. You are right about one thing, it would be good for PvP. So DO NOT remove it.

PvE isn’t the only game mode in this game some people choose to PvP. These talent trees are about choice as well. Not every talent should be catered to you or me.

As a PvPer I don’t ever use Healing Rain, so because I don’t, remove healing rain and talents that effect it and replace it with something that benefits my preferred content only?

That doesn’t make much sense and neither do your proposed changes.

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I mostly agree with your points, except for:

Are you kidding? This is a 10% physical DR with 50% uptime for your tanks. This will be as close to mandatory for raids as talents will get.

And also:

I can see this getting some very strong use out of double cloudburst, triple healing stream, double wind rush, double earth grab, quadruple cap totem, double tranquil air, double mana spring (if strong enough). I think for resto especially this talent is quite strong

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I haven’t pvped much in SL, but I do remember Igneous Potential x3 on your Az gear was GREAT for pvp. Wondering if you’d like to see that return as an offshoot for Lava Surge.

Not sure if you read the talent correctly. For the base talent you get ONE totem reset every 3 minutes, with the improved you get TWO resets every 2 minutes. It’s good, and probably worth taking, especially in PVP. But It’s not a full reset of all your totems. It’s just two extra coolies (from your weaker totems) every 2 minutes for 2 talent investment.

Yeah that’s why I tried to express that it may be wanted in PVP, and that is an area I’m not entirely familiar with. Definitely if it is useful in some form of content let it stay.

Yeah I know what it does haha, maybe my post was worded poorly, and there should have been an OR in between all of those

I thought it was pretty obvious you were describing various scenarios/combos that could be used, and not everyone at once. You are fine and your point still stands Call of the Elements will be interesting for resto

Im hoping if we have double Stream Creation core/Call will reset both of them and we can get 4 streams out instead of 3

With the buff talents to stream and the Living Stream talent Im interested to try these types of combos out.