This comes down to 10 spots being available to raid with this leaves basically no room for groups to bring other classes to fill out a roster. Don’t believe me? Imagine if 5 mans were the highest level content of the game and were pumped up in difficulty and took over an hour if you have a bad group to complete(I pugged gnomer on an alt and it took over 2 hours and we didn’t clear so I know those groups exist also). Would you just grab whomever sent you a tell first or would you do some sort of discrimination on who you took? Using whatever metric you deemed appropriate.
You can talk about how much you like 10 mans, how easy they are to manage or whatever else. However, the fact of the matter is there is less room to bring an “underperforming” class.
Once they go back to 20 mans and later 40 mans, there is simply more room for people to come to the raid and raid leaders can be less discriminating.
It is also harder to parse in a 10 man, so all of those complaining about parses, when you have no classes that support your play style, you will not look like you perform well in groups that do not have any synergy with your class, in 20-40 mans you have the room to put those synergistic classes in.
Edit: example, Being a warrior without a homunculus priest, windfury(wildstrikes), FF and CoR, you will preform very differently than you would if you were in a group that had all the things to buff your damage.
We’ve known 10 mans are bad for 20 years they’re only good in retail because retail balances properly and is hemogenized enough to allow multiple classes to bring certain buffs and abilities
10 mans are a part of the gatekeeping problem, for sure. Limited slots mean any single player has a larger impact on success/failure. That leads to heavier gatekeeping as raids look to optimize composition and player ability.
You open that to 20 slots and you can cover all raid buffs you need with the first 10-15 slots and the rest are just DPS juice. That solves the problem rogues have today where they are OK dps but don’t have any raid utility.
20 is the way to go, IMO. Not so small you have to gatekeep heavily. Not so big you spend all day praying to find 40 people who will stay the entire raid.
SOD is a failed experiment to combine classic andy’s and retail andy’s into one singular idea… and it fails on that accord because well… each side begrudingly is playing it because they are just waiting for the next thing to hop on to.
I begrudingly am waiting for a new ordinary vanilla server thats hopefully gdkp free… thats all I want… maybe 1 new raid and put pvp loot up to naxxramas level.
With 20 slots they still aren’t going to want the people having a hard time now. It will be tuned for the 20… not tuned for10 so they can carry the other 10.
10 mans are not the problem, when 20m and 40m raids start up at 60 all the people that are currently underperforming, which refuse to get/use discord and don’t feel they need to bother to gear up are still going to be undesirable, and they will still have problems finding raid spots. DPS will still find there are far more DPS than needed, good healers and tanks will always still be in demand.
The number of viable raid leaders will decrease, as the number of people can lead successful 10m raids is significantly higher than that which can lead a successful 40m raid, since dealing with the drama and management needs are much higher, so its quite likely there will be far fewer pugs than there are now, making it even harder to get into a non guild raid, and many will be unhappy as the bigger raids shift away from MS/OS to things like Loot Council.
You’re probably not wrong. Just anecdotally, I couldn’t really get into a 15+ key as a frost mage at times in BFA/SL but had little issue getting into (25-man) raids.
They will absolutely have an easier time finding raids, will the absolute bottom of the barrel players still have a hard time? Sure but with the availability of raid slots and needing an extra body to go from 19 to 20 or fill 5 slots, it will unquestionably will allow people to get into raids easier. Not every raid wants a min/maxed raid roster or is willing to wait to fill, they just want a viable roster when they are pugging and viable is a lot easier to justify when you have 20 slots vs 10.
It’s more that retail has 4 difficulties, only one of which strongly encourages min maxxing. Which people 100% will do in 25 mans if that’s how the content is designed.
