So we have M+, but why not a Raid+? Why not an intermediary raid style outside of the 20-man mythic, a way for players to run 10-man, shorter raids.
There is talk about Blizzard bringing back shorter mid-tier raids like Crucible of Storms, which not many people liked for reasons. 1. It was a terrible raid, but 2. It was released at a bad time, you cleared it a couple of times and you were done, the gear wasn’t great, and shortly after you were already looking for the next raid so going back multiple times was never on the cards for many players since the effort to clear and get the gear was going to be replaced soon anyway.
So why not do some sort of Raid+, where you have multiple shorter raids per season, an increasing difficulty for each ‘raid’, and a way for players to do 10-man raids. Take the main raid and split it up like they do with the old mega dungeons, add in some more shorter raids in mid-tier patches in an R+ style same as M+ and let us off the leash of this 20-man weekly lockout that limits many people from raiding.
I know many players and see many posts here about wanting a change to mythic raiding, where a static 20-person raid and a lockout that limits who you can raid with is just not on the cards for multiple reasons. And with M+ being a thing that can get us geared higher than heroic raiding, along with the talk of shorter mid tier raids, is it about time Blizzard overhauled raiding to get more people into it?
We we discussing something similar in another thread the other day.
Basically something similar to Path of Exile’s Sanctum in structure as a 10 man maximum raid format, groups have a time limit of 2 hours to get to the end. Groups get one attempt per week with a rest area after the first 3 bosses where the timer pauses.
There is some disagreement regarding certain aspects of it, but on paper that sounds neat.
Can you just do 5 person raiding? 10 players is still a lot of waiting. 20-30 people and you either leave people behind or just rename the mode from raiding to waiting lol
Ten man raids would be great. It maintains the ratio going from 5 man content of 1 tank to 1 heal to 3 DPS. So you don’t get this weird cut off where half of tanks would just not have a spot if everyone tried to push into raids.
Ten man is much more manageable from a guild roster perspective. Can also lend itself to two 5 man groups teaming up for the larger scale content.
But they’re pretty hyper fixated on not changing anything about mythic raids, even if it would be better for the game.
10 man mythic raiding wouldn’t suddenly increase the amount of people that are capable of doing the difficulty. The challenge with mythic has always been the difficulty of the content and not the 20 man requirement.
Not to mention the people that complain about “My Spec Didn’t get representation in RWF! Blizzard buff me!” would be an insufferable amount more due to just the logstics of buffs. Every raid group would have to start with the following…
You’d have two slots left for other classes and specs to find a space in a raid group, and this is with me excluding Evoker for their Blessing of Bronze.
Changing it so that more classes have access to more/overlapping buffs would result in homogenization, which no one wants.
I’ve lost count of the amount of mythic raids over the years I have had to call because we never had the required 20, but had more than 10, with some being pugs.
And when that happens you sit around waiting for those 2-3 players at the right iLVL and experience and mostly just end up never starting, or taking someone not ready for mythic raid and just doing the first 3 bosses.
Part of what makes it difficult is finding 20 people who are all at the right iLVL and skill. And it’s not just 20, you need 25 or so just in case someone needs to sit out, or you need that extra healer, or in some rare cases a third tank to help get over the line.
Yeh people like this are so obviously in a guild who have 30+ people on call who can all raid at a moments notice, they don’t know the struggles on most guilds who try mythic raiding when it comes to the roster boss.
Even the heroic raid which has a much easier roster boss due to flex scaling is just so much waiting. Maybe it would be easier if there was a “teleport to raid leader” button everyone could click at any time when the raid leader is inside a raid. I know people might use it to skip trash and whatever so maybe also less trash in raids or make all trash walk-by skippable.
I dont think we’ll ever see specifically 10-man raid content again. I could see them caving one day and allowing mythic to flex, maybe.
I really miss 10m. It was a different feeling. Even in groups that dont touch mythic, the dynamic is different in flex raid sizes vs hardline 10m. Flex means people want to bring friends on an inconsistent basis. Flex means roadblocks = invite more geared/experienced pugs to get us through. And even if you specifically dont do that stuff and run a 10m team, the fights just arent designed with that in mind anymore. Sure, sometimes it wont matter, or itll be easier, but when it goes the othet way you basically have to compromise and grab those extra bodies and it sucks.
I know you had something specific in mind here but I wanted to vent a little, hi.
I miss 10 man raiding. Part of the reason my guild hasn’t broken into it is because it’s been difficult finding 20 people + a few others for backup. Something like 10-man mythics would be awesome for us.
Never, 10man raids means you need 6 excellent top tier DPS or it falls apart bad. One dps down? Wipe. Healer down? Wipe. Tank down? Wipe.A single person in a 10man raid going down with no brez means wipe. No thanks. Also means you cannot take more people in the guild then you have and a team B is never assured to all have 2 tanks, 2 heals, and balanced DPS if melee and ranged either.
M+ isnt a raid. Its a dungeon. The mechanics are simpler and easier to tune whereas raid is supposed to be the “gather your friends and take down mighty foes that require many people to kill coordinating well” type thing.
You know Karazhan was a 10 man raid, now a dungeon. Sure, there are some differences, but it’s not inherently unworkable. 10 man raid on its own does not denote extreme complexity.
Also, you can consider Tazavesh 5 man vs hardmode. The differences in execution requirements is a choice.