255% more HP and 11-12 more DPS. (13 if your heals are G). We already established via stats (that you then claimed I dont have despite literally quoting them here to you), that bosses do not hit like wet noodles.
10m is by the numbers harder. You claim to understand stats, but can’t comprehend that there will be more 10m groups than 25m groups for obv reasons (less roster rq).
10m has worse players doing it and thats it.
Youre making the exceptions for 25 by trying to configure their raid comp in your favor.
If we go by the actual boss stats and damage taken 10m is easier.
Damage taken is obviously going to be higher if more people are getting hit…
Jesus alright I gotta assume you’re intentionally being dense.
I picked no favorable raid comp, in fact where I pulled from if people are parse monkeys, they are running sets that mean they take higher damage, and in fact goes AGAINST my argument. Because that is much more viable in 25 man with the variety of CDs.
Gonna take a stab and say you havent full’d on main given the ‘‘10m players are just worse’’ nonsense.
I have been 13/13h for months.
I raid 25m
Im in HUNKS on Benediction.
If the average hit on 10m like you said for whatever you looked at thats what im saying, no one is at risk of dying.
If an ability goes out and it hits the raid for 50k but on 10m it hits for 40k the 10m team is far less in danger because the ability doesnt hit as hard, the amount of healers is irrelevant.
Then you have 10m kills which are much faster than 25m kills because even taking into account the +15 players 25m has the amount of HP is so much more, like +255% for Alakir like i said.
10m Boss mechanics hit for far less and the bosses have far less hp.
Which is hwy you can have random 10m guilds have much faster kill times then the sweatiest and best guild in classic that runs 25m like Progress
The world first guild back then even did a comparisson because they were world first in 10m and 25m in firelands.
The points they make are the same points im making on why 25m is harder.
Thats also MY mage. I also play a shaman tho cuz our ele had a baby, so i have been playing the shaman (Peeposcam).
I do gotta appreciate your dedication (apparently on multiple threads) to just claiming 25m is harder again nonsensically. Your argument is for competence, not numbers. 50k vs 40k isnt dangerous unless something else had you low already. And again, you have more CDs at your disposal. Obviously healing is relevant…
I mean i only used the -10k you used, idk if its factual.
That thread has multiple points being made.
The world first guild back in orginal cata who had world first 10m heroic and 25m heroic went boss to boss in the link and broke it all down.
I guess no one is going to change your mind because you raid 10m so it has to be harder, it isnt.
there was a conversation about this back in the day when people were telling paragon that 25 man was easier than 10 man then they shut up immediately when paragon killed heroic rag in 30 pulls in 10 man, here’s a link to one of the paragon players talking about it
https://youtu.be/BE09LA4VeWg?si=6BznZmuivD8-csD-&t=2029
And in 25m you can use 2 raid CDs per raid dmg event cuz they happen on the same timers and you have 2.5x more buttons to push.
/your argument
ive never seen the alakir spirit/haste sword/neck on my 25m runs, please increase the loot drops in 25
10m is harder, that’s why so many guilds disbanded in original Cata. It’s not just about health of the boss and damage intake. You have more then 50% less players for the same mechanics. More people makes mechanics easier because you have a larger pool to deal with the mechanics.
2 people will have an easier time fighting something even if it scales in health and damage than soloing it.
Paragon literally had an interview about this topic back then.
10m is the meme version then and now.
It took them over 500 wipes on 25m then a group of 10 did it the next day on 10m heroic in 30 pulls.
It’s the same thing we are saying.
No DPS checks.
More room to work with.
Abilities don’t hit hard on 10m
Bosses have far less HP.
Idk why people are still trying to deny this when we have all this data
Firelands was after the guild killer tier.
“So many guilds disbanded” because they weren’t good and couldn’t handle raiding at a competent level. Even with the 30% buff and 10m being the easy mode in Wrath most of them couldn’t fully clear ICC 10 Normal. There was never any hope for them.
I mean they break it down boss per boss.
The fights are just straight up easier…
“having to find the same 25 people is a joke… 10 man clearly takes more to find than 25 clearly 10 man deserves to be upair with 25 man loot wise”
This threads are starting to remind me of those feral mains asking for buffs when not only ferals are bad and in dire need of buffs spec wise but they think they are the center of the universe in their own story…
It’s not worth to have any sort of conversation when people casually dismiss and ignore a mid ground for the sake of their own version of “truth”.
Again firelands was after the guild killer tier. There were literal impossible bosses because there weren’t enough people within a 10m to deal with the mechanics. Halfus was the main one where 10m didn’t have enough interrupts.
You claiming something doesn’t make it true. Preach even talked about 10m being a guild killer because of impossible bosses and he was in with the top raiders.
I’m going to stop you right there. I don’t agree or disagree that 10man is easier but this argument isn’t it chief.
Why parrot the same “paragon took 30 attempts to kill 10man”
It’s almost like these players were the pinnacle of wow skill at the time, with 500 wipes on 25man they surely know mechanics of the boss which ofcourse would translate to an easier kill on 10man. They knew timers ahead of time, literally was super prepared for it. You can make the argument that 10man is easier and I don’t disagree, there are aspects of 10man that are miles easier than 25 and there are aspects of 25man that are miles easier than 10man.
But cherry picking this one scenario is what I’ve seen people throw around and again, these people went into that 10man prepared, you need more definitive proof than “the top guild in the world went into 10man after they killed 25man and it was easier”
They literally go into a full blown boss to boss guide on why 10m is easier.
None of you are bringing up any data.
The data is literally the boss has far less hp, the boss mechanics hit for nothing, there is no dps checks, there is way more room.
Everyone who is arguing in favor of 10m is just saying trust us bro.
Our first Heroic Nef kill we swapped it to 10m after raid because we couldnt get it on 25m yet and we killed it in a few pulls.
10m is a meme.
Firelands was harder than T11.
The same argument is being said for both tiers.
We literally have the data on boss health and damage output.
We are saying the same thing paragon said for firelands.
Boss health is far lower, no dps checks, way more room to do the mechanics (Council), Boss mechanics hit for nothing.
Idk what else needs to be said but “trust me bro 10m is harder aint it”.
Apparently not.
So?
Didnt I say that this doesnt matter and that mechanics were the real issue by not having enough people to cover the things you need? Or am I just talking to a wall that wants to talk a bunch of bs?
Because you dont have the same amount of people. Duh, of course boss health is going to be lower. You dont even know how to put out percentages saying -330% which would be negative health and the boss would be dead when you got to it, 3 times over.
There are always some sort of DPS check.
No there isnt, there are less people to do the same mechanics.
no they didnt.
Something of actual substance except saying "less people had less health to get through… duuuhhhhh.