So Furbolgs were going crazy and Legion were in the area. The Legion would even have been corrupting Ashenvale, if them being the source of the Furbolg aggression is to be believed. Where was the Legion or their corruption? In the next chapter you see Tichondrius and Mannoroth tainting a fountain with demon blood, but that’s after the conflict between the Goblins and the Furbolgs started. Aside from that, the only other source (satyrs) have already been their for awhile, long enough that if their presence was going to distress the local Furbolg, they would have already.
The story of Azshara culminates in razing a Night Elf outpost because they’ve been continually harassing logging attempts in Azshara. The Night Elves certainly cared enough then.
Turned out a lot less cursed. Hell, Darkshore has a lot more ghosts than Azshara does. Ends up being when the Horde tries to move in the Night Elves decide they want the land after all.
You answer your own question.
They were also in the middle of Garrosh’s war to take the Night Elves’ lands. Azshara was an entry way to Ashenvale as well.
Third sentence of mine that you quoted is relevant, though, in that it was the Goblins moving in to work for the Horde while the Horde was at war and invading the Night Elves that would make the Night Elves want everything to do with it.
I’ve come here to inform you, and everyone. That the Blizzard police has finally caught wind of Reallyhappy’s unsubbed status and have removed forum posting from them. RIP brave sassy undead monk, never forget.
and the Orcs however still have no “moral” right to continue their desecration of the woodland or continue their invasion once they are aware, no matter how violently made aware they were, that the woods are occupied.
Taking a step back, why would Night Elves simply brush off Goblins doing any logging? Whether it be a human, an orc, a troll, or a goblin, it doesn’t make the tree any less sacred. If anything, Goblins with their machines built for clear cutting a forest and exploiting the environment, would be some of the last people they’d allow in their forests.
I can respect the Night Elves defending their land, but can you point out to me when they told the Orcs that? From the perspective of the Orcs, all that happens is they start cutting down trees the same way they always have, and are suddenly challenged in the Warsong’s favorite past time, battle. If anything, the Warsong would likely consider the Night Elves the aggressors.
That isn’t to say the Warsong are suddenly absolved of any wrongdoings, or bear no responsibility for how poorly first contact went, but for them, Night Elves were no different then any other creatures they’d stumbled upon in Kalimdor. Quillboar, Centaur, Harpies, all hostile and ready to cut them down as soon as they met.
For Tichondrius and Mannoroth. Other Legion forces might have already been in Ashenvale. Or even Mannoroth’s original blood pact with the Orcs was enough to drive the Furbolgs crazy.
Not all trees are sacred. Night Elves are fine with the Goblins logging trees in Azshara. That’s different from the Orcs cutting down a Tree of Life in the Warcraft III mission:
The enormous, enchanted Trees of Life will provide your forces with vast amounts of high quality lumber. You must seek out the sacred Trees and rip them down! Be wary, though. The warrior women who protect the forests are sure to take offense at the despoiling of their land.
Warsong Orc: Chieftain, that great tree pulses with magic! We should keep our distance!
Grom Hellscream: Bah. Am I surrounded only by cowards? It’s a tree, like any other! Cut it down!
Grom Hellscream: You see? The great tree provided us with an abundance of lumber! If we find any more, then we’ll hack them apart as well.
Think about the Goblins. They didn’t expect the Orcs or Humans to be on Kalimdor. If they were cutting wood, who else would they have to sell that lumber to in that area but the Night Elves?
That doesn’t really change my stance on the Night Elves and their initial murdering without diplomacy.
Debatable, (at least for the Horde overall) given their still limited awareness of the situation and mission to save the world from the Burning Legion. Though, obviously the Warsong go overboard compared to the other groups in their self-defense. I can certainly agree there.
The Tauren or Centaur. Or, more likely, they might have been planning to ship it elsewhere in the world for use or sale.
These are possibilities, yes. Though, I don’t find it likely, if the Night Elves left the Goblins alone. Doesn’t seem likely that the Night Elves and Cenarius wouldn’t know about the Goblins cutting trees if they were doing so without their permission.
Long enough to have a customer base and a town (doesn’t look like much of a town in game, but neither do most bases). The quest text from the mission:
A nearby tribe of Furbolgs has begun to harass the Goblin Merchant and is scaring away potential customers. If you can slay the beasts' chieftain, the tribe may disperse and improve the Goblin town's commercial viability.
Might have, yes, but that’s purely speculation. We don’t know how long the Goblins had been there, but we know the Furbolgs had started getting more aggressive recently. The Warsong had only just arrived, and their demonic taint had weakened since it’s initial infection. Furbolgs are pretty easy to drive into a frenzy, but I’ve never seen Furbolgs driven into a frenzy at just the presence of minor demonic energy nearby.
True, but by the time the Warsong encountered the Night Elves, they hadn’t even seen a Tree of Life, much less cut one down. If they’re willing to ignore Goblins cutting down trees, they presumably wouldn’t have taken offense at the Warsong cutting some trees either, but they did.
Huntress : You were right, sisters. These green-skinned brutes have no respect for life! Slay them in Elune’s name!
Up to this point, the Orcs hadn’t encountered any Night Elves, and then a Huntress along with a couple Archers attack.
Well I guess you could say they told the orcs in the language they’d understand. Does a snake talk with a potential threat before it strikes? Not really. Rattlesnakes not withstanding as they occasionally attempt a warning. Still warnings are designed to show that this is something you don’t want to mess with.
The Orcs raided Kaldorei lands and they retaliated with violence. The orcs continued, so did the elves. There is a term… Aggressive negotiations, or something to that effect.
If you want to compare Night Elves to animals, sure, but I think there’s much more depth to it then that. As I said previously, did the Night Elves say that the Orcs were trespassing, or did they simply attack? How were the Orcs supposed to differentiate their attackers from elves defending their lands, and hostile raiders ambushing them? If you walked into the forest and were suddenly attacked by a wolf, would your immediate response be to assume that you’re trespassing into the wolf’s home and should have recognized the wolf’s sovereign claim to the land, or that you’re in danger and need to defend yourself?
I’m not trying to whitewash the Orcs as innocent sightseers that were blindsided by Night Elves, but by the time they would have realized that this is where the Night Elves lived and considered it their own territory, they’d already be well into the conflict. They could have turned around and retreated at the realization it was Night Elf land, and that’s on the Orcs, but the Night Elves aren’t free of blame either.
This! I’m fairly certain that they knew about the fel essence thanks to Cenarius, he worked closely with them for the last 10k years. It’s possible the elves sensed it. Tyrande already felt a troubling force encroaching but didn’t know at the time it was the legion. Can they really be blamed for picking up on the fel and wanting to be rid of it?
This too. It’s not like the isn’t any Golbins in Northern Kalimdor already. The Steemwheel Cartel has an outpost in Winterspring, an area we know the Night Elves paroled.
Well their dealing were probably with the Night Elves, not the Furblogs. The Furblogs are also territorial and weary of outsiders.
From the orc perspective you have a point. That said you can’t blame the elves for trying to drive out the fel that they picked up on in the orcs. They were defending themselves. Too bad it wasn’t the humans that came in first, it may gabe turned out differently.
Cdev clarified the Night elves attacked the Orcs first not just because of trespassing but because Cenarius sent them to investigate the source of demon blood. The Orcs were still under the curse, so Cenarius deemed them a threat. This was the moment their Long Vigil was for. Slaying demon invaders. For all intents and purposes, the Orcs were demonic invaders sent as harbingers to Ashenvale. Ironically Grom ended up drinking the blood and killed Cenarius and many defenders, weakening the overall strength of the Night elves for the Legion, thus proving Cenarius’s assumptions about them right.
It wasn’t just a matter of “hey you can’t log here”, it was a matter of the Night elves adhering to their fervent devotion to eradicating demon kind and servants.
This is, far as I know, inaccurate. Partly true, but misconstrued.
How does Cenarius view the Horde? Considering that Cenarius’ first instinct upon seeing orcs in his forest was to attack them, and Cenarius was killed by the father of the current warchief, it seems odd that Cenarius and his allies are so cordial to the Horde and orcs in particular in Hyjal. Despite no longer having warlocks in their ranks, the orcs of Thrall’s Horde still carried within them the unmistakable mark of the Burning Legion upon their very souls up until the moment that Grom Hellscream defeated Mannoroth. Cenarius, as a being so attuned to nature that he can sense the slightest corruption, assumed that the orcs in Ashenvale were scouts of the Legion. This, ironically, sent the Warsong clan back into the service of Mannoroth and lead to the reestablishment of their connection to the potent fel magics that first bound them to the Legion. Cenarius’s spirit returned to the Emerald Dream after his defeat, and within it, he was able to sense the events of the Battle of Mount Hyjal. Cenarius saw the orcs defend Nordrassil hand-in-hand with the night elves and humans, and developed a growing respect for them. Cenarius saw that, despite their fel taint, they were allies against the Legion and defenders of the land (noting Garrosh’s father’s victory over his former enslaver in particular), so when both he and the Horde returned to Hyjal to defend the World Tree once again, Cenarius saw the orcs and their allies in a new light.
I do not see anything about Cenarius ‘sending the Night Elves to investigate here’. As was noted, the Night Elves attacked before Cenarius was even on the scene. And Chronicle 3 actually further clarifies that initially it very much was ‘hey, you can’t log here’. Coinciding with the Warcraft 3 telling of events.
Spirits of Ashenvale
When Sentinels reported that strangers were barging into Ashenvale, Tyrande Whisperwind expected the worst. She was somewhat relieved to find that these outsiders were not demons. Tyrande correctly assumed that the Horde and Alliance refugees were fleeing the plague across the Great Sea. From the way they fought each other, she also guessed they were bitter enemies.
Tyrande ordered her Sentinels to observe the newcomers froma distance. She hoped that the refugees were merely passing through Ashenvale en route to other lands. She was wrong. Some of the Horde’s green-skinned orcs made war on the forests. They stole from the woodlands without asking, felling trees with reckless abandon. Tyrande had no love for these creatures. They were brutish and violent. And Tyrande would suffer their presence no more.
The Sentinels struck Grommash Hellscream and his Warsongs. Some night elves, perched high in the trees unleashed a storm of arrows on their prey. Others, armed with razor-edged glaives, descended on the backs of winged beasts called hippogryphs or giant felines called nightsabers.
The Sentinels were as deadly as any foe the orcs had faced. That didn’t frighten Grommash and his warriors; it excited them. They had been longing for a chance to fight a worthy enemy.
Before long, the orcs found themselves severely outmatched. Cenarius had also been watching the newcomers, and he smelled the demon blood in their veins. Thinking that the green-skinned creatures were Legion servants, Cenarius attacked them alongside the Night Elves.
Cenarius mainly appears to be the only individual confused as to the situation.
So to summarize; The Night Elves watched the Orcs, saw that they weren’t demons, correctly assumed they were refugees fleeing the plague across the Great Sea, and attacked because the Warsong started logging without asking permission from the people they didn’t know existed, and were ironically driven back into demonic servitude because of the Night Elves fervent zeal.
Can we please now accept that the Night Elves and Orcs were both at fault? Grom and the Warsong entered Ashenvale as a punishment for their blood lust. They were relegated to menial labor because they couldn’t control themselves around the humans. The Night Elves attack was more a relief then anything, finally having a worthy foe to battle.
The Night Elves were defending their home against invaders, but they went straight to violence rather then diplomacy. Because of that, Cenarius died and the Warsong were under the Legion’s thrall once again.
Sure, should’ve just asked Grom to stop logging. In retrospect, I’m sure it would have turned out well. About as well as it did when Thrall asked Grom to stop killing Humans.
Should Night elves have started diplomatically? Maybe. But we know how it was most likely to turn out with Grom at the helm. He didn’t even obey Thrall correctly, what makes anyone think he would respect the wishes of a bunch of purple women? If both parties are at fault it would be like a 10/90 split.