This is the most common havoc question I see.
Please take a hint Blizz, and make no mover at least as competitive. People are willing to take a DPS hit just to not have to play mover. If that DPS hit is too much, they likely just don’t play havoc.
Mover looks popular, but not because people enjoy it more.
Mover is not popular, contrary to what a vocal minority of people may say. The proof is that those people wouldn’t wink twice if no mover was suddenly better in a realistic way (profile) and just swap to it.
I don’t want to get into the debate, because it’s endless, but as you say, that’s probably one of the most common questions that I see. “Can I play no mover in X?”
I’m convinced at this point that carrying mover forward is a mistake that is going to keep costing the spec players.
If Chaos Brand wasn’t a thing most people would just move away from current Havoc, I’m convinced. It just takes a designer that realized the massive issues with the playstyle for the sake of uniqueness to just use the axe.
No mover Requires high uptime, which in this raid ALOT of fights prevent that, No mover does not rely on uptime and is bursty so its played more often
Movement is a build for minmaxers, if you want to play, but play play, to have fun, and you don’t like complicating your life, play non-movement and do not care for what people say.
Personally I don’t think there’s enough of a difference to matter unless you’re in a group that wants to dump bosses at the minimum ilvl needed.
There’s a lot of difference because no mover profile is absolutely terrible.
No-mover requires near perfect uptime, long kill times and not missing a GCD to be superior.
As simple as it sounds, it’s incredibly punishing in a real scenario.
It’s more simple than that in reality. No mover is a sustained DPS profile. Mover is burst. There’s no situation in PvE in which sustained is better than burst is tuned equally.
Actually, there is. Underperforming specs constantly beat the better specs if the person playing them plays it well. Could they do better if they learned the movement spec? Sure, but that’s not the point.
That applies to literally everything in the game, not just this build.
However, no mover required near perfect uptime to perform, something that is just not realistic in the majority of raid scenarios, at least in this raid.
Let’s be realistic, the point here is not that mover is hard to play, it’s really not. It’s more like the spec makes it incredibly annoying, hard, or impossible to use in certain scenarios because moving is simply not possible due to encounter design.
That’s why this play style is so hard to balance properly, because it’s neutral or ‘easy’ if you’re allowed to move freely. It’s incredibly hard to use or flat out impossible in some other situations, and the DPS loss is huge when those checks are marked.
I’d go as far to say that in the current Havoc situation, a player playing mover bad will outperform an average player playing Aldrachi + no mover. That’s how incredibly punishing no mover is because of uptime and GCD requirements.
If you just peruse the average players’ logs, I don’t think this rings true. Players make sooo many mistakes, and movement makes it exponentially worse. The average player will play better not having to move.
You’re absolutely right mover is better, but the vast majority of people who can play mover well enough aren’t asking this on the forums.
This is what you’re not understanding. Even though no mover is in theory easier to play as you don’t have to move around, it’s a build that massively increases the uptime and cast requirements because of Cycle of Hatred and Shattered Destiny.
Even if you’re not dying, it’s very likely you’re doing less damage than with mover even if you play them at the same level simply because there’s almost no boss in the raid in which you can sit on without moving for 5 minutes straight.
I’m not failing to get anything. You’re failing to grasp the number of bad players who yeet themselves to death or lose massive up time because they fel rush / retreat into Narnia.
And I’m telling you that outside of dying, which is obvious, losing a bit of uptime when Fel Rushing is not nearly as bad as losing uptime for Cycle of Hatred/Shattered Destiny builds, which in return might make the no mover builds worse than they seem for those casual players (since they’re also worse at dealing with mechanics and preserving uptime in general).
It’s not just that havoc is forced to play inertia/momentum.
It’s that, plus essence break, plus not wanting to stay in demon form .
I miss the demonic play style where I could stay in demon form for almost 2 minutes. And as far as up time specs being bad, as havoc I used to be able to stay on the boss until my raid was losing their mind, then be on the other side of the arena, then right back on the boss before anyone else.
I would volunteer to do any and all movement mechanics.
I was able to solo dunk footballs on ghuun that took 2-3 other players. Then get back to boss fast enough I could still compete for DPS.
Now I get to spend for 5 seconds every 40 seconds