But I have a question, the Durotar Foundation, should it remain as it is today? I do not think that it is necessary to make modifications to the terrain, or to the missions, but I want to read if there is something that should be modified in those missions, for me they are perfect as they are, but it does not hurt to give some opinion on something in specific.
Personally, I would not touch anything more than improve the art of maps, Durotar would leave it the same, the Echo islands … there is not much to use in WoW so he would leave them the same, Theramore is also too small in WoW to want to adapt that map In Warcraft 3, Thrall’s head could be moved if he had to highlight something, and not to mention a remastering of the good ones to all the cinematics of said campaign, with the epic that is in itself, it would be even better with good cinematic.
Make a WoW shadowlands side story. Maybe the Bolvar’s forces fighting to kill Sylvanas in Northrend (if there’s any yet) or a campaign showing how Sylvanas entered Northrend and how she could’ve get to the frozen throne without dying, having to fight her way through the ENTIRE SCOURGE. Or the hunt of Tyrande for Sylvana’s blood to sign that peace treat Anduin made. Well you got the idea.
Finally finished the campaign, guess the Reforged team rushed themselves with the deadline, they didn’t think reforming a game like Wc3 would take them so much time, I for one would have preferred if they took an extra year or two to deliver a finished product, at least with the campaign, WHICH they left several signs hinting at the reforged work, the unique models, Straholme, Silvermoon and Dalaran rework, though unfinished, the jungle – forest trolls change with the Blackrock, etc. I dearly hope Reforged gets the Battlefront II treatment and becomes everything we desired in the upcoming months, but it will depend on our feedback as community, the modelers and map makers, please don’t give up on our game.
I for one would have liked these things:
Prologue Campaign:
Not much to be added here, Blizzard actually did a lot by adding the trolls mission and voicing them, however I would have liked the sunken island to be utilized during those and for the murlocs to be replaced by mur’guls with some naga buildings.
Human Campaign:
The March of the Scourge: I would have liked some Fordring’s and Mardenholde references, maybe an item or some named characters.
The Shores of Northrend: Baelgun’s introduction as a named character in the base you must rescue.
Undead Campaign:
Trudging trough the Ashes: Add Brill’s layout to the largest town you visit and add some Tirisfal Glades references here and there.
Into the Realm Eternal: Add more Farstrider references, Quel’lithien Lodge and rename the first Elfgate to Thalassian Pass. Use Ballista as High Elf siege weapons and Lieutenant Model with High Elf colors.
Key of the Three Moons: Add several references to the Ghostlands including Windrunner Village and Tranquillien, Dar’Khan Drathir introduces Arthas about the Key of the Three Moons and the mooncrystals whereabouts in exchange of eternal life and power, add the makeshift corpse bridge as a reference to the novel (pretty badass scene), add some named characters as minor npc’s, (those Andrenasos mentioned sounds cool).
The Fall of Silvermoon: Complete the Fall of Silvermoon scenario, as it was so obvious it was released unfinished. Add Fairbreeze Village as the Farstrider base, add more dialogues and cutscenes, like Arthas’ speech before entering Silvermoon and his dialogue with Anasterian, add Belo’vir and Vandellor as mini-bosses and give them unique models (Belo’vir can use the High Elf archmage one, it’s pretty unique already), add more civilian npc’s running from the Scourge onslaught, add more Silvermoon references and doodads, add Quel’denas references and doodads like Magister’s Terrace (Make the city alive and not so empty), transform the current Sunwell into and instanced space for the ending cutscene (Sunwell Plateau doodad with an instanced interior resembling the Sunwell for the cutscene).
Blackrock and Roll too!: Add unique models for the Orcish heroes, replace the Far Seers with a warlock or necrolyte hero, add a heroic (with glow) version of the Slave Master, replace the Red Dragons with Doom Guards or some other demonic unit as lorewise the red dragons weren’t slaved by the orcs anymore during the Third War (and they DID have a working Demon Gate).
The Siege of Dalaran: Same with the Fall of Silvermoon scenario, finish it, add more doodads and civilian npc’s to bring life to the city, add Dalaran and Kirin Tor references. Add dialogues and unique models to the archmages assisting Antonidas (Conjurus Rex, Landazar, Fordred Aran, Ur and Dalar Dawnweaver. Add worgen references during the encounter with Ur.
Under the Burning Sky: Add more demonic reinforcements, like Felguards and Succubi, also add Kazzak and Mannoroth with their own dialogues and a unique model for Kazzak, balance it with more numerous and consecutive human attacks. Add references justifying the dwarven and high elf presence in Dalaran, rename the human factions to reflect the last resistance forces left in Lordaeron in addition to the Kirin Tor (Like Quel’thalas Refugees, Ironforge Reinforcements, Lordaeron Resistance, etc).
Orc Campaign:
The Long March: Add several Barrens references and critters, like lions, zhevras, giraffes and some landmarks.
Cry of the Warsong: Add references into the different factions of the Human Expedition, like models, banners or named characters. Change Grom’s ability set to reflect his character better (Howl of Terror instead of Wind Walk and Avatar (with a special “enraged” model and animation) instead of Bladestorm).
The Hunter of Shadows: Transform the battle against Cenarius into a scenario like the Fall of Silvermoon and the Siege of Dalaran, add references of Ashenvale and Nightsong Woods, change the layout and name of Grom’s base into Splintertree Post, change one of the Sentinels factions names into Silverwing and add Su’ura Swiftarrow with her unique model, change the name of the satyr coven that guards the fel well into Bleakheart Sect and add some references to Satyrnaar. Add a cutscene that shows how Grom kills Cenarius just before Mannoroth appears.
The Oracle: Change some of the critters like the fallen priests and heretics and add fire elementals, add some Highborne doodads and references to resemble a forgotten temple similar to the Tomb of Sargeras.
By Demons be Driven: Transform the battle against Grom Hellscream into a scenario battle like The Fall of Silvermoon and the Siege of Dalaran, make it so that Jaina Proudmoore and her forces actively aids you while you raid the Warsong Encampment and defend your base against the infernals and warsong raids, add Fel’dan and Neeru Fireblade as warlock minibosses with dialogues and unique models (the first flees during the fight and the second submits to the warchief).
Night Elf Campaign:
Daughters of the Moon: Add some Ashenvale references like the named moonwells, change the Night Elf village terrain and name to match Astranaar.
The Awakening of Stormrage: Add some Moonglade references like the Shrine of Remulos and Lake Elune’ara, add Tharifas and his optional questline. Add Malfurion unmounted model.
The Druids Arise: Change the terrain to match Winterspring snowy enchanted forest tileset, add some references to Winterspring like Darkwhisper Gorge.
Brothers in Blood: Add some Watcher references and doodads in the Barrow Deeps prison, add a Warden miniboss during the armory “raid”, replace the mystics with night elven priestesses with their own model, add some doodads to resemble the Vault of the Watchers.
A Destiny of Flame and Sorrow: Add some Felwood references like Shadowhold, Irontree Woods and Shatter Scar Vale. Unlock the battle against Tichondrius after Illidan consumes the Skull of Guldan into a scenario battle like the Fall of Silvermoon and the Siege of Dalaran, add Banehollow and Xavaric as mini-bosses with dialogues and unique models (the first flees from the battle and the second pledges his satyr to Illidan).
Twilight of the Gods: Add more demonic units to the Burning Legion roster, like felguards, infernal machines, eredar and succubi as the waves become stronger. Add some special named units with unique models like Shandris, namely Broll Bearmantle (Druid of the Claw), Varok Saurfang (Grunt) and Halford Wyrmbane (Captain). Add an optional quest to unlock the training of Chimaeras, the only night elf missing unit, add Kaz’rogal as a mini-boss during this quest.
Sentinels Campaign:
The Broken Isles: I’m mostly ok with the way they left the Sunken Ruins Tileset untouched (thanks god) I would add several stylish highborne doodads to better represent the ruins of Suramar in certain locations like Izal-Shurah and the Tomb of Sargeras surroundings, I would also change the interior of the latter to better reflect the highborne style without letting out the sunken ruins style and some fel corruption, that’s all (the more they get away from Legion crap the better).
Shards of the Alliance: Add some Silverpine Forest references like the Sepulcher and Shadowfang Keep, add worgen references and creeps, add some Gilneas references as well.
Alliance Campaign:
Misconceptions: Change the dwarven units for elven archers and ballistae, Garithos xenophobia should include all races besides humans.
The Search of Illidan: Add several Hellfire Peninsula and Warcraft II references, ruined orcish and human encampments, abandoned siege weapons, add a Sons of Lothar reference in the form of unlockable mercenaries after a secret is discovered. The blood elves models up to this point should be white and decadent, add an scene during the interlude in which Illidan teaches them to absorb magic from demons or fel crystals and make their eyes glow green after that.
Gates of the Abyss: Change the tileset to fit Shadowmoon Valley, barren black soil, dead trees and green fel fire and lava here and there. Add several Shadowmoon Valley, Shadow Council and Draenei references, like ruins and the Hand of Gul’dan.
Lord of Outland: Change the layout of the map to match the Black Temple, change the style and doodads to better match the Black Temple as well, add npc’s like working fel orcs and draenei prisoners to make the place more “alive” as well. Add unique models for the fel orc commanders, including at least one warlock or necrolyte hero, add unique models for the Master of Pain and the Mistress of Torment, change the name of Maim and Rend into Tagar Spinebreaker and Fenris the Hunter. After the gate into Magtheridon’s lair is opened change the battle against him and his elite guard into a mini-scenario with added dialogues and finish it just before Magtheridon dies.
Scourge Campaign:
King Arthas: I like the ideas from Ardenaso, though I would change the name Doan for Gunther Arcanus and discard the extra Dagren scene.
Flight from Lordaeron: Change the layout of the opening cutscene to showcase Lordaeron’s throne room, also add several references to Lordaeron and the Undercity to some extent by adding the palace courtyard and arriving reinforcements from the sewers (maybe add some dialogue from Arthas regretting not finishing his work on the Undercity). Add several doodads and change the map layout to better represent the ruined Capital City.
The Dark Lady: Change Sylvanas undead techtree to showcase a makeshift proto-forsaken army, with burned out human buildings and only undead peasants, banshees and zombie warriors and archers at her disposal, depending on possessing enemy units and stealing siege weapons for survival. Add some future references for the Forsaken like hinting at the creation of the Deathstalkers after the possessing of Blackthorn and sending Mug’thol away into Alterac to retrieve an artifact for her.
A New Power in Lordaeron: Change the battle so that it turns into a scenario battle against Balnazzar forces amassed in Lordaeron City’s ruins. Change the map layout to better reflect Lordaeron City. Keep control of Garithos and his forces to keep Balnazzar’s attention focused on him while Sylvanas and Varimathras infiltrate his fortress with a reduced force (no base of her own), depending on possessions and charm to bolster his forces. The battle ends with a full joint assault from Garithos and Sylvanas after the dreadlord forces have been weakened enough, with a final battle against Balnazzar himself in the palace gardens.
Shadow Web Caverns, Forgotten Ones, Upper Kingdom: Add more doodads to better reflect Nerubian architecture, add more references to Nerubian, War of the Spider and the Old Gods. Add a proper unique model for the dwarven axemen so it can be used at last.
A Symphony of Frost and Flame: Add more Icecrown references and landmarks, somo Vrykul references here and there, more doodads that better reflect the heart of the Scourge power, some side quests that let you bolsters your forces, etc.
I actually assumed that Vandermar = Deathknell
and Drenden too since he was part of the Six before the Third War and he just disappeared after so I assume he died during the Siege
Yes I wish the Mercenary Camp in that chapter hired Alliance troops instead
A good side quest would be besieging a nearby blood elf enemy base led by Lana’thel and the reward would be an ally team ala Akama’s Draenei base in Gates of the Abyss - composed of undead blood elves and dark archers and the likes
https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/dark-ranger-reforged.323550/
And your other ideas are also nice
I like these analyzes of what can be added to the campaign, both the first one and this one, putting them both together and some other ideas that could come from Blizzard could reach a good agreement.
The only thing is that I hope that they do not neglect to carry out new lines of dialogues, that they extend the history and why not, include the odd mission with, as they said, Silvanas or Jaina as an example.
And the cinematics, which are very important too.
So after more updated Lore from BfA via Traditionarmorquestline for Sin’dorei here is how I would do Reforged missions of the Undeadcampaign in Silvermoon.
First Into the Realm Eternal Dar’khan Drathir open for Arthas the gate for him but because of the fierce defending of the Quel’dorei first they need to build Deatholme in Quel’thalas and defend it for some time. When the time is up Arthas looses his patience and just kill the elves with ice needles raising from the ground.
Next mission should be already the Silvermoondestructionmap but with the change that it should be more like the storm on Theramore or the destruction of New-Folsom in Wings of Liberty where Arthas needs to help destroy santums so the undead can easier go they way north and fighting threw the city.
This mission should be won when Arthas reaches the north shore of the city and fade out after he says, that he is finally through and going to freeze the see.
The third mission should be like the last blood elf mission in TFT or generel an exploration scenaria with limited reinforcements on the island of Quel’Danas with start having Arthas one on one fighting Anasterian. After he killed him he can finally summon undead to help him through all those High Elves dedicated to make a last stand and avange their king until he is finally in the room of the sunwell.
I like this idea, but I prefer if the first one was about plaguing all of Eastweald and doing the cauldrons there and probably highlighting the death of Nathanos, maybe yeah Dar’khan appears at the end to open the Elfgate for Arthas
I like this too, perhaps make Dar’khan a “runner” where we protect him so he could disable the runestones and for Arthas to take An’owyn, An’telas, and An’daroth with easy
This could be nice too, but I’d prefer if this one is a separate chapter from the Fall of Silvermoon that would be rather short; since literally there’s only one dungeon crawler in RoC Undead Campaign and it’s just the first one maybe this one too; perhaps make it a gauntlet of the Convocation of Silvermoon and some other known characters
Eldin Sunstrider*, Sylvos Windrunner*, Belo’vir Salonar, Vandellor, Solanar, Falon, Thalorien Dawnseeker, and then finally Anasterian Sunstrider himself
*newly introduced characters as members of the Convocation of Silvermoon
you know its possible to create your own custom campaigns right? instead of writing your ideas into an essay, you could just open up the map editor and get to work
nobody cares about campaign and nobody plays WC3 for “WoW lore”… so if you want this, its up to you to create it, but not many people continue playing campaign mode in WC3 over and over again for 18 years the way they do with multiplayer stuff
ok
10 characters
Not for Mac users, since Blizz thought lying to us and saying we’d have a map editor would be easier than telling the truth.
That aside, IF I had access to it, I’d want a mirror of the Horde bonus campaign, but for the Alliance. I really wish that all of the campaign had been structured in a similar fashion, where you can swap between zones and proceed towards objectives at your leisure.
My pitch would be a bonus campaign where we follow survivors of Lordaeron south through Khaz Modan, and into the Kingdom of Stormwind. Could throw in Blackrock Mountain lore on the way, and then tie in the Gurubashi and the Defias Brotherhood.
Could be a place to introduce the leaders of Sentinel Hill, Darkshire, Lakeshire, Goldshire, etc - and explore a bit of what the Dwarves/Humans/Gnomes were doing during the fall of Lordaeron.
If there isn’t a map editor, big deal. The issue is that they lied about it, and that ticks me off.
I’d have been fine if they came out and said upfront “we’re not adding an editor for Macs”. At least they’d not have lost the very last bit of respect I had for them.
I know that not many games are compatible, and that’s fine, because I really only play WoW on my PC and that’s it; I’m on consoles for everything else on the rare occasion that I do play games. It’s not a huge deal. But to lead on a chunk of their player base with lies? That’s a pissy move.
But I don’t like being misled or lied to, especially when they take my money.
And WoW fanboys have always been ruining crap for the rest of the community; nothing new there.
WC3 worked fine, though - we didn’t -need- a carbon copy remake. It was a waste of resources to put out a remake that doesn’t even work.
I’d rather of had the changed up remake with all the new bells and whistles and updates; if I wanted the original experience, I’d just go play the original… which is available on the store… for cheap.
I would do something completely new actually.
What happened between Maiev entering the portal at the end of The Brothers Stormrage and Kael’s forces finding him caged? I want to make that happen, a short 3-4 mission thingy.
Yeah, I was really looking forward to that. Pretty upsetting there haven’t been a working mac version in about 10 years.
I always felt the Hero abilities never fit the campaign. They were always designed as multiplayer abilities, and there’s no variance on different ‘builds’ you would use playing through Reforged.
If you play through the Human campaign, there’s no reason why you would ever pick Divine Shield or Devotion Aura first pick over Holy Light. As Thrall, there’s no reason you’d put more points into Farsight after you already get it. The choices just aren’t interesting.
That part of the combat system is what I’d like to see changed in an updated campaign. I think there’s plenty of gameplay ideas from WoW to Heroes of the Storm, and even in Hearthstone, that could be used to boost the campaign. I’d even like to see progression systems in play, like the Heroes of the Storm Talent system or something akin to the Classic WoW Talent tree. Or we could have Class specific item rewards. An NPC could reward you with an Amulet which blinds enemies around the target you heal, or a Crown that makes your Divine Shield taunts enemies lets you be attackable while invulnerable. Now we have options in what kind of character we want to build; a more tanky Arthas or a Healer/support Arthas.
Sure, this would change the idea of the Campaign being a ‘tutorial’ for Multiplayer, but I think we’re down far enough the rabbit hole to treat campaigns as campaigns rather than glorified tutorials. I think campaigns should be made to be replayable, and made to provide certain challenges to the player. Take a note from the Doom remake philosophies of providing players ‘Combat Chess’ opportunities and giving players a wealth of options for which they can use to overcome a certain challenge.
Different campaign spells and talent trees like in Dota 2? Mate, the 0,5 devs working on Reforged would be utterly swamped with work.
Who said the devs would be doing this?
My ideas are simply an expression of my own opinions. I don’t think we should be trusting the devs to do anything more regarding the campaign at this point.
The campaigns were always made with gaining some melee experience in mind. Can’t say the same for The Founding of Durotar though since Rexxar has Storm Bbolt instead of Summon Hawk and Rokhan has Locust Swarm instead of Big Bad Voodoo. Also, of course, the campaign is designed as mostly RPG with no melee elements whatsoever.
Which is my point, if the campaign were remade today then it should be a campaign that takes all the lessons learned and apply it. The gameplay itself is modular, its a medium to express the story. If Rexxar didn’t have Stormbolt and had a unique ability more fitting to his character like his Heroes of the Storm or Dota2 variants, the gameplay experience is the only thing that changes.
Funny i could go on and on and suggest new campaign ideas. instead of these stupidly over blown out excessive visual overhaul
we could get things like a Manaroth Boss fight
Well, I wouldn’t really know this Manaroth. Is he a sort of mana demon?